Servo888

I didn't know that there were strict weight limits to steel frames... I'm 228lbs, with a Trek 760 (531c frame) with Campy parts that I wanted to build up as a low-cost racer. But now I'm wondering if I'm going to kill the frame or myself after I hit a bump... *sigh*

Servo888

I should add that I'm in good shape, I don't see my weight going below 190lbs-200lbs.

CV-6 

I weigh 225 and ride a Reus with 531C. Smooth ride. Also ride other 531, Columbus and Ishiwata frames without problem. YRMV.

hhabca

I had that same frame - a 56cm 760 with 531c. I was about 180lbs at the time I rode it, and not very strong either, but the bottom bracket flexed a bit when climbing, causing the chain to rub on the FD. I ultimately sold the frame as I felt it was too small for me but I was also a little worried about the thin 'competition' tubing. At your weight, and most likely strength, I'd be looking at something else if you're interested in the frame lasting a long time.

On a positive note, I don't think the frame would collapse under your weight when you hit a bump or sprinted. It's more likely to just fatigue faster than normal and have a shorter life. If it cracks anywhere you'll feel it while riding, or see a crack form long before the tube would fail completely. Just inspect it often to catch anything (something anyone racing should do all the time I'd think...)

Picchio Special

While the "C" indeed stands for "Competition," the tubing is not particularly "thin." On the contrary, 531C is simply a renaming of the standard 531DB tubeset once Reynolds had introduced heavier (531ST) and lighter (531SL) versions. The SL is pretty light. The C is very likely perfectly safe to ride, even for a heavier rider, though you may notice more flex than someone lighter. The published weight limits for earlier steel tubing types have been discussed here before and are very, very conservative. Any well-built 531C frame should have a good, long life, even with a 200+ pound rider aboard, IMO.

miamijim

Scroll down.....info is accurate to the best of my knowledge. I converted the Reynolds 531DB from 'gauge' to 'mm' as I couldnt find any printed documentation as to its size in MM.

https://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10.html

Picchio Special

I'm not entirely convinced by that chart: for one thing, 531P was clearly the successor to 531SL, not 531C as stated on that chart. I'm still pretty sure 531C was the middle-of-the-range version, with nothing especially light or thin about it. Keep in mind that, while the chart list particular measurements for 531DB, 531DB tubing was always available in a variety of gauges - they just weren't distinguished by a variety of different decals/designations until fairly late in the game. That's when 531C became the designator for the mezzo-mezzo version. Comparing the specs on that chart for "531DB" and "531C" could therefore represent a bit of apples vs. oranges (note that the chart doesn't include 531ST). To sum up: 531C isn't that special, or especially light, AFAIK.

miamijim

I know the specs are dead on because I copied them verifiable Reynolds literature. As far as earlier versions of DB coming in different gauges I couldnt comment other than to say it was available in both French and British gauges. Your are right about 'C' tubing....its very closely spec'd to the traditional DB tubing. 'ST' is anywhere from 25-80% thicker than 'C'

My chart was designed to give Peugeot enthusiasts and idea as to when certain tubing was used. Its in no way intented to be a Reynolds 'timeline'. It doesnt include 'ST' because it was never used by Peugeot

Picchio Special

Builders could order several different gauges of 531, apart from the French/British distinction. There was at least a heavier and lighter gauge version, and perhaps more for better customers. For example, Schwinn notoriously used the heavier gauge consistently for its Paramounts, ostensibly because it made for a stiffer frame, but just as likely stemming from Schwinn's fame as a producer of bicycles with a lifetime guarantee. In smaller sizes, this made for frames that were unnecessarily "dead," at least according to some riders.
I figured ST wasn't there because Peugeot didn't build with it, but mentioned it because it basically "brackets" 531C as the middle option between SL/P and ST.

USAZorro

Don't forget 531P - which was used for the 760 frame for at least 1984.

miamijim

'Brackets' is an interesting choice of words. I've been trying to figure out the Reynolds timeline and the best I can come up with is 'SL' followed by 'C' followed by 'P'. I havent been able to establish when the overlaps occured. What I do know is that 'SL' and 'P' were never produced at the same time.

'SL' and 'C' may have overlapped and 'C' may have overlapped with 'P' but I cant say for sure that any of them actualy did overlap.

Picchio Special

My understanding is that these special designators -- C, CS, T, ST, SL, P -- are really just ways of marketing pre-packaged tubesets of a specific mix of gauges. Previously builders could have specified the gauges they wanted for tubes for different frames that would all have gotten the standard 531DB decal. I believe builders could also have chosen heavier or lighter sets. The introduction of the "new" designators meant Reynolds could then market specific sets for specific purposes - i.e. extra-light racing, touring, recreational riding, etc, leading to the different "weight limits." Some of those pre-packaged sets may have been proprietary. Some builders I believe continued to order their 531 tubes from Reynolds by specifying gauges rather than using the pre-packaged mixes. The material is the same in all cases (as distinguished from 501 or 753).

Picchio Special

My understanding is that these special designators -- C, CS, T, ST, SL, P -- are really just ways of marketing pre-packaged tubesets of a specific mix of gauges. Previously builders could have specified the gauges they wanted for tubes for different frames that would all have gotten the standard 531DB decal. I believe builders could also have chosen heavier or lighter sets. The introduction of the "new" designators meant Reynolds could then market specific sets for specific purposes - i.e. extra-light racing, touring, recreational riding, etc, leading to the different "weight limits." Some of those pre-packaged sets may have been proprietary. Some builders I believe continued to order their 531 tubes from Reynolds by specifying gauges rather than using the pre-packaged mixes. The material is the same in all cases (as distinguished from 501 or 753). But it made it look like Reynolds was introducing "new" tubesets.

miamijim

Here's my most recent info based on Reynolds documentation I recieved today.

In 1981 Reynolds went through a 'rebranding excercise'. Standard DB tubing was split into 2 categories, Competition and ST. Competition most closely matches traditional 'DB' while ST was a heavier tubeset intended for touring type applications. At the same time 'SL' was rebadged into 'Professional'.

My specs have been reviewed and verified by a representative from Reynolds. They will be updated ASAP.

miamijim

Piccio, you seem to be correct in that 'Professional' was a succesor to 'SL'. Reynolds continued to supply manufacturers with custom blended tubeset through the 80's....at least. Reynolds has SL chainstay drawings marked 'Special Peugeot' .8mm
(.6mm was standard SL)

Picchio Special

This makes sense to me, and sounds about like what else I've read. A lot of these distinctions do seem to boil down to branding.

Picchio Special

This is pretty widely understood to be the case among the folks I communicate with - one tell-tale is that both SL and P sport similar distinctive red lettering.

spider-man

A steel frame shouldn't have fatigue problems under normal circumstances.

SoreFeet

Let the weld give before your confidence gives...You are riding steel not carbon fiber made with magic glue.

As always lets some some ride photos

miamijim

Guys, here's a chart I received from Reynolds...it helps to clarify the timeline.

Picchio Special

Great job tracking down the info - thanks! Pretty much fits what we've discussed.

hhabca

Point taken! However, it's those 'normal circustances' I was concerned about. I had thought the 531C was a 'competition' tube set, and that heavier riders would be advised against riding it. I didn't know that 531C was simply good ol' DB 531 under a new name - that is reasurring to know. Both Reynolds and Columbus (and others) made special tube sets that were very thin, and suggested rider weight limits and/or suggested riding conditions ('special events' or 'smooth surfaces', etc...) Some of these special tube sets were plain gage tubing only 0.6mm thick! I would have serious doubts about a frame built of that type of tubing lasting 100,000 miles under normal circumstances, as a typical DB531 tube set can.