Can these 27" Wheels be Trusted?
06-04-08, 12:37 AM
#26
Old Skeptic
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Mexico, USA
Posts: 1,044
Bikes: 19 road bikes & 1 Track bike
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
A lot of times, lower range hubs with sealed bearings are just nasty feeling at first and will [ahem] "smooth out" after some miles (as in wear) is put on them. As for lack of lube... Shimano is also pretty notorious for not lubing some of their components nearly enough.
As for the "sealed" bearings... are you sure? There is also a difference between "cartridge" bearings and "sealed" bearings (like Phil woods). Cartridge bearings are indeed set into their own casings - making them super easy to just snap in place on a hub or whatever during factory assembly, but in fact are sometimes serviceable and just removing the simple plastic closure caps may allow you to access the bearings to pump some additional grease into them.
One example which comes to mind are Shimano Dura-Ace (HP-7410) threaded headset bearings - which everyone assumed were permanently sealed - not so. They are actually even described in the Shimano service manuals as "Cartridge Type" bearings (and which actually contain 18 x 5/32" balls within a maze of shields to keep out water and grit). So, when a customer had lamented about his headset being gritty, too tight, and just shot and in need of replacement, we just popped them open, lubed em up, and Bingo! Perfect. That'll be just 5 bucks, please. Yeah, he was shocked.
NOT advocating that you bust apart a set of brand new hubs, but just a thought you may want to bounce of the LBS mechanics to see what they have to say...
Measure the spacing between the locknuts. As others have mentioned, most modern/current 27" replacement wheels are spaced 126 mm. And, often they have an extra simple spacer set on the non-drive side. This gives lots of room on each side of a hub and minimal wheel dish to make for stronger (and easier) wheel truing which will hold up better for the average hands-off consumer. But you can usually re-locate a spacer onto the drive side to fit a wider (7-speed) freewheel. You'd then probably have to redish the wheel just a bit though, to keep it centered.
Since your freewheel cogs are probably going to be... uh... 14-28 or 14-28... same-same whether using a 6-speed or 7-speed freewheel. I'd just use what fits and make it easy on yourself. If buying a new freewheel, I've gotten some pretty nickel-plated Chinese-made House Brand 6-speed freewheels from Nashbar, on sale for only $12 and they even have the nice modern HG tooth profiling. They seem to be holding up just fine on a beater/commuter bike. And a couple friends are still abusing the same on their beater bikes too. [BTW: Did you know Shimano has all of their modern replacement freewheels made in China now too?]
Enjoy!
As for the "sealed" bearings... are you sure? There is also a difference between "cartridge" bearings and "sealed" bearings (like Phil woods). Cartridge bearings are indeed set into their own casings - making them super easy to just snap in place on a hub or whatever during factory assembly, but in fact are sometimes serviceable and just removing the simple plastic closure caps may allow you to access the bearings to pump some additional grease into them.
One example which comes to mind are Shimano Dura-Ace (HP-7410) threaded headset bearings - which everyone assumed were permanently sealed - not so. They are actually even described in the Shimano service manuals as "Cartridge Type" bearings (and which actually contain 18 x 5/32" balls within a maze of shields to keep out water and grit). So, when a customer had lamented about his headset being gritty, too tight, and just shot and in need of replacement, we just popped them open, lubed em up, and Bingo! Perfect. That'll be just 5 bucks, please. Yeah, he was shocked.
NOT advocating that you bust apart a set of brand new hubs, but just a thought you may want to bounce of the LBS mechanics to see what they have to say...
Measure the spacing between the locknuts. As others have mentioned, most modern/current 27" replacement wheels are spaced 126 mm. And, often they have an extra simple spacer set on the non-drive side. This gives lots of room on each side of a hub and minimal wheel dish to make for stronger (and easier) wheel truing which will hold up better for the average hands-off consumer. But you can usually re-locate a spacer onto the drive side to fit a wider (7-speed) freewheel. You'd then probably have to redish the wheel just a bit though, to keep it centered.
Since your freewheel cogs are probably going to be... uh... 14-28 or 14-28... same-same whether using a 6-speed or 7-speed freewheel. I'd just use what fits and make it easy on yourself. If buying a new freewheel, I've gotten some pretty nickel-plated Chinese-made House Brand 6-speed freewheels from Nashbar, on sale for only $12 and they even have the nice modern HG tooth profiling. They seem to be holding up just fine on a beater/commuter bike. And a couple friends are still abusing the same on their beater bikes too. [BTW: Did you know Shimano has all of their modern replacement freewheels made in China now too?]
Enjoy!
06-04-08, 10:34 AM
#27
Trout!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 261
Bikes: Fuji Absolute of unknown age, Framed Gravier
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
this may or may not be interesting, but i notice that the hub body on the wheel i received yesterday has a bulge in between the flanges on the drive side, like it was made for a cassette but it has the freewheel threads on the outside of the flange, maybe they did this to save on tooling? yea looks like it's spaced for a freewheel I'll have to bring it in and get it re-dished and spaced for single speed, man I shoulda bought the tarck wheel.
06-04-08, 01:49 PM
#28
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times
in
15 Posts
this may or may not be interesting, but i notice that the hub body on the wheel i received yesterday has a bulge in between the flanges on the drive side, like it was made for a cassette but it has the freewheel threads on the outside of the flange, maybe they did this to save on tooling? yea looks like it's spaced for a freewheel I'll have to bring it in and get it re-dished and spaced for single speed, man I shoulda bought the tarck wheel.
Yep. I tried to tell you about the track wheel option, but I guess it must have been too late to cancel the original order? Good luck!
06-04-08, 01:53 PM
#29
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times
in
15 Posts
Yep, they have a metal seal ring on one side and a plastic one on the other that could potentially be pulled out - however I'd have to do some damage to them to do this. There is nothing to unscrew to remove the axle, so the best I'd be able to do would be to squeeze some grease in there. The crappy bearings would remain the same.
I'm hoping that you are right and that those rough bearings will 'smooth out' a bit as they wear.
-Steve
I'm hoping that you are right and that those rough bearings will 'smooth out' a bit as they wear.
-Steve
A lot of times, lower range hubs with sealed bearings are just nasty feeling at first and will [ahem] "smooth out" after some miles (as in wear) is put on them. As for lack of lube... Shimano is also pretty notorious for not lubing some of their components nearly enough.
As for the "sealed" bearings... are you sure? There is also a difference between "cartridge" bearings and "sealed" bearings (like Phil woods). Cartridge bearings are indeed set into their own casings - making them super easy to just snap in place on a hub or whatever during factory assembly, but in fact are sometimes serviceable and just removing the simple plastic closure caps may allow you to access the bearings to pump some additional grease into them.
One example which comes to mind are Shimano Dura-Ace (HP-7410) threaded headset bearings - which everyone assumed were permanently sealed - not so. They are actually even described in the Shimano service manuals as "Cartridge Type" bearings (and which actually contain 18 x 5/32" balls within a maze of shields to keep out water and grit). So, when a customer had lamented about his headset being gritty, too tight, and just shot and in need of replacement, we just popped them open, lubed em up, and Bingo! Perfect. That'll be just 5 bucks, please. Yeah, he was shocked.
NOT advocating that you bust apart a set of brand new hubs, but just a thought you may want to bounce of the LBS mechanics to see what they have to say...
Measure the spacing between the locknuts. As others have mentioned, most modern/current 27" replacement wheels are spaced 126 mm. And, often they have an extra simple spacer set on the non-drive side. This gives lots of room on each side of a hub and minimal wheel dish to make for stronger (and easier) wheel truing which will hold up better for the average hands-off consumer. But you can usually re-locate a spacer onto the drive side to fit a wider (7-speed) freewheel. You'd then probably have to redish the wheel just a bit though, to keep it centered.
Since your freewheel cogs are probably going to be... uh... 14-28 or 14-28... same-same whether using a 6-speed or 7-speed freewheel. I'd just use what fits and make it easy on yourself. If buying a new freewheel, I've gotten some pretty nickel-plated Chinese-made House Brand 6-speed freewheels from Nashbar, on sale for only $12 and they even have the nice modern HG tooth profiling. They seem to be holding up just fine on a beater/commuter bike. And a couple friends are still abusing the same on their beater bikes too. [BTW: Did you know Shimano has all of their modern replacement freewheels made in China now too?]
Enjoy!
As for the "sealed" bearings... are you sure? There is also a difference between "cartridge" bearings and "sealed" bearings (like Phil woods). Cartridge bearings are indeed set into their own casings - making them super easy to just snap in place on a hub or whatever during factory assembly, but in fact are sometimes serviceable and just removing the simple plastic closure caps may allow you to access the bearings to pump some additional grease into them.
One example which comes to mind are Shimano Dura-Ace (HP-7410) threaded headset bearings - which everyone assumed were permanently sealed - not so. They are actually even described in the Shimano service manuals as "Cartridge Type" bearings (and which actually contain 18 x 5/32" balls within a maze of shields to keep out water and grit). So, when a customer had lamented about his headset being gritty, too tight, and just shot and in need of replacement, we just popped them open, lubed em up, and Bingo! Perfect. That'll be just 5 bucks, please. Yeah, he was shocked.
NOT advocating that you bust apart a set of brand new hubs, but just a thought you may want to bounce of the LBS mechanics to see what they have to say...
Measure the spacing between the locknuts. As others have mentioned, most modern/current 27" replacement wheels are spaced 126 mm. And, often they have an extra simple spacer set on the non-drive side. This gives lots of room on each side of a hub and minimal wheel dish to make for stronger (and easier) wheel truing which will hold up better for the average hands-off consumer. But you can usually re-locate a spacer onto the drive side to fit a wider (7-speed) freewheel. You'd then probably have to redish the wheel just a bit though, to keep it centered.
Since your freewheel cogs are probably going to be... uh... 14-28 or 14-28... same-same whether using a 6-speed or 7-speed freewheel. I'd just use what fits and make it easy on yourself. If buying a new freewheel, I've gotten some pretty nickel-plated Chinese-made House Brand 6-speed freewheels from Nashbar, on sale for only $12 and they even have the nice modern HG tooth profiling. They seem to be holding up just fine on a beater/commuter bike. And a couple friends are still abusing the same on their beater bikes too. [BTW: Did you know Shimano has all of their modern replacement freewheels made in China now too?]
Enjoy!
06-04-08, 02:04 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 252
Bikes: Schwinn Traveler, Chimo Concourse, Next mountain bike, all crap!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The wheel he linked to was aluminum (not steel), so that's not an issue. Also, the small difference in dish between normal 6 and 7 speed wheels would be unlikely to be a problem. Even older derailleurs should be able to handle the difference without a problem.
However, if he has 120mm spacing (older-generation 5-speeds), then things are different. He'll have to "spring" the rear chainstays open a little bit to use these wheels, which are spaced for 126mm dropouts. Not a big deal, really, but he may not have enough clearance to run a 7-speed. He might still be able to run a 6-speed, but it's not guaranteed either, UNLESS, he got one of the more rare skinny 6-speed clusters they used to make, which fit in 120mm frames (check ebay for suntour ultra 6 speeds I think).
Edit: lots of suntour ultra 6 freewheels are on ebay it seems
However, if he has 120mm spacing (older-generation 5-speeds), then things are different. He'll have to "spring" the rear chainstays open a little bit to use these wheels, which are spaced for 126mm dropouts. Not a big deal, really, but he may not have enough clearance to run a 7-speed. He might still be able to run a 6-speed, but it's not guaranteed either, UNLESS, he got one of the more rare skinny 6-speed clusters they used to make, which fit in 120mm frames (check ebay for suntour ultra 6 speeds I think).
Edit: lots of suntour ultra 6 freewheels are on ebay it seems
06-04-08, 03:15 PM
#31
Trout!
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 261
Bikes: Fuji Absolute of unknown age, Framed Gravier
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
06-12-08, 12:48 PM
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 252
Bikes: Schwinn Traveler, Chimo Concourse, Next mountain bike, all crap!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
In case anyone is wondering, I bought some of these wheels. I got them from Bike Parts USA. Less than $35 each with stainless spokes and QR skewers included. I'm not wild about the satin silver on the rims but the spokes and hubs are nice and polished. The wheels are reasonably light and came straight and true. As others have mentioned the bearings are not the best but maybe a re-greasing will fix that. But for the price I couldn't be more pleased. They are perfect for the kind of bikes I will put them on. I also bought a $12 Shimano 7 speed freewheel while I was at it and it worked out great too. I put the whole shebang on my '79 Schwinn Traveler and no trouble with the 126mm spread of the axle or adjusting my derailler for the additional gear. I had previously been using the six speed rear wheel off of my Le Tour. For less than a $100 including shipping I think it's a slam dunk. Brand new alloy wheels, 7-speeds that are lighter than the old six speed freewheel with new gears and no more chain skip. And quick to install, no freewheel tools or chainwhips needed since it's all brand new. Just screw on the freewheel, install tires, done. Awesome.
06-12-08, 01:34 PM
#33
Senior Member
If the chain was slipping before there is a good chance it is worn and should also be replaced. If you run a worn out chain on a new freewheel, you will accelerate the wear on the freewheel. Best to start with a fresh chain or one you know is OK when installing a new freewheel.
06-12-08, 01:39 PM
#34
Senior Member
Here are the 27" track versions of these wheels for about $50:
https://www.bikepartsusa.com/bikepart...ry/wheel-track
https://www.bikepartsusa.com/bikepart...ry/wheel-track
06-12-08, 03:41 PM
#35
Senior Member
06-13-08, 07:59 AM
#36
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times
in
15 Posts
It is likely to have generic Quando hubs, which are okay for singlespeed use (not the smoothest bearings, but acceptable generally), but have been known to be problematic for use with a fixed gear and no brakes. It seems that in order to make the track hubs cheaply, without having to retool all of their equipment, they ended up re-using the shell of the freewheel hubs, and ended up with a hub that didn't have very many threads for the lockring to attach to. As a result, there were a number of failures where the lockring would break loose of the threads.
I've also heard that this was only a problem with the 'old' hubs, and that they did eventually retool all of their equipment and make a brand new hub with the proper strength for the task.
But I'm a bit foggy on all of this, so do a search and find out!
I've also heard that this was only a problem with the 'old' hubs, and that they did eventually retool all of their equipment and make a brand new hub with the proper strength for the task.
But I'm a bit foggy on all of this, so do a search and find out!
06-13-08, 08:56 AM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Milwaukee WI
Posts: 252
Bikes: Schwinn Traveler, Chimo Concourse, Next mountain bike, all crap!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
If the chain was slipping before there is a good chance it is worn and should also be replaced. If you run a worn out chain on a new freewheel, you will accelerate the wear on the freewheel. Best to start with a fresh chain or one you know is OK when installing a new freewheel.
