How much is this worth? (great condition except for some paint scratches on the frame - no rust)

Frame/fork/headset/combo Schwinn Paramount
Frame dropouts Campagnolo
Brake levers Campagnolo
Brake calipers Campagnolo
Shifters Campagnolo
Stem Cinelli
Bars Cinelli
Hubs Phil Wood
Rims Mavic MA40
Seat Brooks
Seat post Campagnolo
Front derailleur Suntour XC
Rear derailleur Suntour
Cassette Suntour
Cranks Sugino AT
Chain Unknown
Bottom Bracket Unknown
Pedals Campagnolo

thanks in advance!

Without detailed pictures, its only worth the time to type your post. Are you selling or buying? What year is the Paramount?

If it is between '80-'83 and is an "Elite" it could be worth $10,000 (if you find the right buyer). If it is a standard Paramount from '83-89, it might be worth $500 (if you find the right buyer). If it's a gold plated fork 50th Anniversary Paramount from '87, the value could be in the low $2000 range (if you find the right buyer). So as you see, it's tough to give you an answer from the above list of components.

BTW, if your Paramount is about a 22-24 inch, cudak888 will gladly give you $5.50, sight unseen.

here are some pics

the seller also sent this information:

"The serial number of the frame is 560H W L85159. From what I can tell about that from research is that it is considered at 56 cm frame, manufactured at the Waterford factory in December of 1985, and it was the 159th frame of the year. I believe at that time they were using a Columbus SLX tubing. I took a look at the tubing decal and copied the following info off of it:



COLUMBUS TUBI RINFORZATI GARANTITI ACCIAIA SPECIALE"

The seller is close, but doesn't have it quite right.

The 560 is the frame size in millimeters from the center of the crank to the top of the seat tube.

The "H" should be a letter "A" through "E", indicating the length of the fork steerer tube. The Smallest frames used "A" forks, while the largest frames used "E" forks. Since the frame size is 56cm, the "H" is probably a "B".

"W" is the Waterford, WI Paramount facility (now Waterford Preciscion Cycles).

"L" is November, not December. The seller probably didn't realize Schwinn didn't use "O" in serial numbers because of the potential for confusion with "0". December is "M", not "L".

85159 indicates the frame was made in 1985, and was the 159th frame made during the month of November of that year. Because the bike was made so late in the year, it is more than likely a 1986 model year bike.

The 56cm frame should have been made with Columbus SLX.

These are really nice bikes (I have an '87 62cm Standard), but usually don't sell for much more that the $500 Pastor Bob mentions. The one you're looking at has rough paint, so it wouldn't command a premium price.

Waterford has several pages of its website devoted to Paramount history starting HERE. Click on the different pages at the upper left ("Classic Period", "Paramounts in Waterford", etc.) for additional pages.

The rear dropouts look older than 1985. Were they still using the long Campy dropouts in 1985?

By 1987 they were using Shimano forged dropouts (see picture of my '87 dropouts below), and I suspect that's what was used on this bike. The seller says they're Campy, though, so maybe they are. I find it curious that there are eyelets on the dropouts; they may have been ordered by the original purchaser.

Neither the 1985 catalog picture nor the 1986 catalog picture show eyelets on the dropouts.

Thanks for posting a link to the pictures. I paid $550 for an '83 Standard earlier this year. The frame and paint are in significantly better condition then the one you are looking at. I'd be inclined to not pay more than $300-350, and maybe not that based on an in person inspection.

This Paramount has potential, but it looks as if the components could be better matched and possibly a re-paint is in it's near future, so it could turn into a nice investment.

Best of luck!

he's selling for $499. i might pick it up. i was going to build a single speed with an 80's Le Tour frame ($75). I calculated all the parts and it came out to $400. I might as well go with the paramount with some nice parts for a little more?

Yes; I'd go with the Paramount.

thanks everyone. if i were to consider repainting in the future, would it be wise to lose the original paint? is this a bike you think that could be worth more down the road with some TLC?

Stan and I have both repainted our Paramounts. We're not the best folks to ask.

Pastor Bob is right; we're not the ones to ask.

Since did you ask, though, I'll give you my thoughts and you can take them with a grain of salt.

I bought mine off of craigslist for $500. Like yours, the paint was rough with light rust in some areas, but I still think it was a good deal for the money. It was equipped with full Dura-Ace components.

I paid another $450 for a top quality paint job and am very pleased with the way it turned out. Would I be able to get $950 for it today if I tried to sell it? Probably not, but it's a great bike that has an equally great ride.

It's worth $950 to me, and that's what counts.

does waterford have some sort of restoration process?

Yes.

https://waterfordbikes.com/now/home.p...randrparamount

thanks. has anyone been through that process? how much are we talking about?

IF you dig around on the Waterford site they usually have a price list. It's a real menu so depending on what you want, the cost can vary, but expect it to begin around $600 and go up.

This looks more than rought paint - a small dent:



Is that something that can easily be repaired or masked (filled?) during a repaint?

I presume something so tiny is just cosmetic.

I missed that. Although it probably won't affect the structural integrity of the frame (hard to tell without closely looking at it), it would be enough to make me pass on this one.

I saw an old paramount at my LBS recently that they were fixing for a customer with these decals:



from the waterford website. It looked to be a track bike. had a creme colored frame... no rust whatsoever.... I'm guessing it must have been pretty valuable.

yeah, as long as it doesn't affect the structure, i'm cool with that. some scratches give it character (I currently commute on an early 80's Samson NJS track that's looks VERY ridden)





i'll probably ride the Paramount and commute on it until i warrants a restore at Waterford.

Thanks for everyone's responses. Great to see there's a big Paramount community. I'll post new pics once the bike arrives.

bike arrived and it's a beaut

I have a white 50th anniversary that Waterford painted for me a couple of years ago. the paint turned out just fantastic. There was no structural damage to the bike, but the original finish had been very badly damaged from a late life on the windload trainer. They may have made me a special deal, but one color paint with exact decal match was $350 plus about $100 shipping.

I had a 73 restored by them later, with few structural repairs, and the bill was $650 with about $100 shipping. Check the website, I think they have a price list posted somewhere up there.

BTW, I haven't seen these particular braze-ons on an 80's paramount before. The rack mounts must have been special order (or did they still make a touring bike at that time?)

Thanks for the info on restoration. I might do that one day.

Regarding the braze-ons, I was wondering that also. Whether they made a special edition touring or whether it was custom ordered. Several people who've seen my bike have mentioned that.