Hey Y'all. My friend, who knows a bit about bikes, told me I have something special on my hands and that I should post something about it. I took some photos of it and was looking to find some more info about it.

It's a 1973 Schwinn Paramount. It has a tire holder beneath the seat (!) and a coin stamped on the top tube of St Christoper, the St. of safe travel (!!).

It has a HUGE box of parts and is a dream to ride. I'm looking to get rid of it and maybe part it. But I'd rather not.

I live in Los Angeles and honestly have no idea what the true value of the bike is, but I imagine it's something special.

Anyone help me?

Yoram

I'll give you $200 for it. When can I pick it up?

Welcome to C and V!

I'm sure others will chime in but my observations are that it isn't an original paint job and many of the components such as brakes and rear derailleur are not correct for the bike. That doesn't mean that it is of little value, quite the opposite. It won't fetch what an original one will (check completed ebay auctions for examples) but it definitely has some substantial value.

The small chain ring on the crankset is really, uh, small. I know it isn't factory issue, but what IS it?

Never seen a half-chrome front fork quite like that. Almost certainly a repaint.

Not sure what opinion would be in regards to the double-drilled Campagnolo triple crank - it isn't a pretty kludge, that's for sure. Eclectic mix of oddball components - looks as if a good deal of the original hardware was replaced over the years.

That said, not bad, but it is in severe need of a good cleaning up and detailing.

-Kurt

That almost looks like it would fit East Hill.

No, it wouldn't. One or two centimeters too large.

-Kurt

nice bike. almost certainly worth more than $200, especially in a torrid bike market like la.

I know what you mean

Then it would fit me.

A friend of mine has a Paramount of similar vintage. The fork is 1/2 paint, 1/2 chrome. The color is also period-appropriate, and the lugs are chromed. I'd guess it's the original paint.

As to the crank- yeouch... it's an original Campy triple that's had the spider re-drilled for a 74mm bolt circle ring. That means it'll take down to a 24 tooth chainring. The original "granny" on a Campy triple was 36 teeth, and I think there were some aftermarket rings (Merz?) that went down to 32 teeth.

IMO, the added holes in the spider are failures waiting to happen. They're right through the flutes on the spider, which doesn't leave a lot of extra meat to hold the spider "spuds" in place.

A set of replacement arms is being sold on Craigslist right now:
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/766344507.html
This is what the spider should look like.

The brakes are original Suntour Superbe and the rear derailleur is Suntour Cyclone, both from early '80's. Both are replacements of the original 1973 parts which are functionally superior to the originals. Chances are that a knowledgable buyer won't mind having them.

Something tells me East Hill has been fitted.

Does the OP seem to be ??? Little pics, post and run, no response back? It just feels a little off.

serial # looks like '72?

Yes; September, 1972. That late in the year it could be a '73 model year, though.

Not off. Just another thinly veiled for sale ad.

This is my first time on here. I didn't realize people were so serious! Should I make the pics bigger?
I'm responding. I'm here!!!
Not for sale! just want to know what its really worth.

Larger Pics Please!!

Well Yoram, you can't have it both ways. Quote:" I'm looking to get rid of it and maybe part it". End of quote. So, which is it?

Baiting someone in hope's he'll say something or blow-up is about as bad as trolling. Why not ignore him & the post will go away or PM him & offer your, either way your point is made. Oh & BTW I agree, it does look like he's trying to sell! BTW,this post was not aimed at Kurt, kurt was just giving the facts as they happened, but some others may have had fishing rod in hand. Just wanted to clear that up.

Another baiter.... Too bad.

I'm glad you agree with me, but what do you think about the bike? I find it interesting, but do wonder about some of the parts myself & the paint I'm just not sure about! Good to see another man lay the rod down & put the bait away!

Must say that I personally find the component mix rather nice and functional, if an odd mix. Love the Superbe levers mated to what appear to be the original NR calipers, and the Suntour Mountech RD is an interesting piece in itself as being Suntour's own take on the Huret Duopar. Frank Berto says it's unreliable due to the secondary spring mechanism. Wouldn't know myself, never used one. Looks good though, even when mated to the Paramount at least 10 years senior to the derailer.

I'm not sure if that extra bolt circle would do structural harm to the spiders unless done incorrectly - after all, I haven't heard of those Mexico-style cranksets coming apart, and many of those have the entire flute milled all the way though.

I wish those photos showed the repaint of the front fork better though. Paint job makes a U shape in the front of the fork blade, all the way down to the dropout, while the rear is left chrome. Rather - dare I say it? - funky, even for a '70s machine.

Personally, I'll take Tom's (TBART) Superior frameset over this machine any day of the week. Still in love with that blue metallic...yum

-Kurt

EDIT: Fixed Tom's name.

I'm sorry to have caused such a ruckus!

Kurt - didn't mean to offend you. I just found it offensive that you'd send me that message. This bike is obviously worth more than that and it makes me feel baited.

For everyone else, I've made a new post in to my flickr with higher quality photos and added several photos of the toolbox.
Still would love to hear more about this bike...

here's a link to the flickr with the new photos.
https://flickr.com/photos/10821405@N08/?saved=1

Good to hear from you Kurt & you can take that to bank! Not sure how much money you could get tho' LOL.

I agree with most all you say, on the crank I just really don't know, I've got one & just don't think it'll last with the extra hole's - wouldn't be the first time I was wrong tho'!

Wow, you remember that Superior huh? You have a good eye with bike's . You'll end up riding a bike from me sooner or later & it will be a good one, you got my word on that!

You & me had our words & then had a meeting of minds [by way of PM's], I think I came to understand you & where your coming from [and agree with you more then you may think], I think ,you as well did the same with me! Bottom line is we have No problems between us. Let others play game's, we [you & I] have other & better thing to do!

Oh yes, the "I dare say", I just alway wanted to say that, because I like it, next thing you know I'll be wanting a English 3 speed [which I do]. LOL. Take care Kurt!

Tom

No offense intended on this side either, and I was never wishing to do so.

Perhaps I can explain where I'm coming from. Starting with the more simplistic frameset point of view: I see it as an intact, but repainted Paramount frameset in need of some tender lovin' care. Anything that hasn't been polished out and the chrome buffed out automatically devalues.

That's not to say that the value is not there - it is just a matter of whether you wish to bring out the Meguiars Scratch X and polish up the frame, and give the chrome a nice cleaning with fine bronze wool and Flitz metal polish. Some wish to slave over it (most of us love to do so) with cleaning solutions, some owners that just want to part with it do not. Regardless, even though the bike may have potential value after being cleaned, it does not mean that when in its uncleaned state will it be worth the same to the potential buyer. Presentation is part of value.

That said, here is a similar men's frameset that recently sold on eBay. Beautiful condition, well presented, and keep in mind that shining original paint:

https://cgi.ebay.com/1972-22-inch-Blu...QQcmdZViewItem

Sold for $450 (not $700+). Obviously, it looked $450's worth. Yours can look so too, but it would require a couple hours worth of polish, careful removal of that coin from the frame with Goo Gone for originalities' sake, and one must still remember that the paint job is different from the original (I wonder about the quality/durability of the finish too, and how well it will shine after polishing). I dare say it would bring a nice chunk of change in this state - perhaps not $450, but a good price nevertheless.

Now one can figure in the components mounted. The fact that the bike is missing most of it's Campagnolo components doesn't particularly help - one still has to track down levers, rear derailer, and possibly a new crankset if they want to remain truly original. This stuff adds up (particularly an original Campagnolo triple crankset without additional 3rd-party drilling), and will devalue the machine unless the original components happen to be in that big box of parts.

I don't know if the Mountech has a following or not in terms of above-average value. The Superbe levers might be worth something, though I would expect them to bring a decent sum only if sold separate - wouldn't know of many folks looking to buy a Paramount because it so happens to have Suntour Superbe levers on it (or the Mountech, for that matter) - Paramounts are desired today because of what they were originally - an excellent frame with a nice Campagnolo or Campagnolo/Weinmann component set.

Value of the sum of the components mounted on a frame are always less then when sold individually, and unless those components are of interest to the person looking for a Paramount, the importance of those components to the value the bike will command will diminish. Doesn't help if those parts have not been cleaned either - as I said before, a good cleaning increases value.

That said, here are some recent sales to give you an idea of the varying prices these Paramounts can command. All are original paint examples - couldn't find any other in eBay sold auctions:

https://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Schwinn-...QQcmdZViewItem
^
There's a nice all-original example in a desirable color and reasonably common size. Hasn't been cleaned up (note surface rust on lugs), but it is pretty clean for "dirty," and drought a decent sum.

https://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1974-Sch...QQcmdZViewItem
^
Here's an all-original, mint example that's been cleaned and presented very nicely, and brought quite a price as a result. Funny thing is that if the orange one had been cleaned with new bar tape, and presented well, it might have brought a price far closer to this one.

As for local markets:

In the unusual occasions where I've sold a nice vintage machine on Craigslist (and you can bet dollars to doughnuts that said bike wasn't my size ), I'll usually knock off about 20-25% of what I'd expect to get off of it on eBay, because the local folks know they can get a better deal in the local market. Price above the local market, and I've found that one will find themselves sitting on their bike for a nice long time (amongst the occasional price heckling email).

That said, the location that one is in has a good deal to do with it too. I usually price via what I find locally here in Miami, and I perhaps forgot to take the blinders off and take your LA location into account. Your local market might be conducive to higher prices then Miami, though I still believe $700 for the frameset is a bit much.

I don't know if what I've said here makes much sense, for I didn't have any cohesive idea of how in hell to explain this when I began to write. Nevertheless, I hope you will understand what I mean. No hard feelings intended.

Take care,

-Kurt

Everyone, please refrain from calls of trolling and for-sale attempts in threads. If anyone has any suspicion of such, instead please report the thread to a moderator so that we can review it. We do not want to false accuse new members to the forum.

To the OP, file hosting sites such as fileshack, fliker and the like provide free upload services that will allow you to post much larger sized images of the bike for us to see. And I would like to very much see more detail of this unique bike.