Hi guys!

I'm looking for a nice frame to mess around with while I save up for the new, cheaper Rivendell line of 2009.

I currently have a Schwinn Le Tour but I keep running into problems since it uses almost no standard sizing!

I'm basically looking for a steel, lugged frame, preferably japanese, that I can powder-coat and just stick a bunch of fancy parts (Chris King, Phill Wood, Nitto) onto that will eventually be moved onto a nicer Rivendell frame.

I'm wondering if while looking through junkyards, garage-sales, and craiglist if there is a particular name or model I should look for that would fit this description, I just simply don't know enough about this topic to make an educated decision (I had no idea none of my parts would fit when I got the Le Tour!).

Thanks in advance guys!

Nishiki?

Nishiki, Univega, Bridgestone, Panasonic......

'What size frame are you looking for?', he asked, knowing full well that there are 2 frames that need to be sold in his basement.

If you are considering Nishiki, I recommend avoiding the early 1970s models, with their heavy and mushy-feeling frames. By the late 1970s, Kawamura was cranking out some world-class frames, but their earlier products were still works-in-progress. (Been there ... done that ... didn't know better. )

Late 70's through Mid 80's Japanese top end frames for most builders are plenty good enough for your goals. Look for a Tange Champion #1 or Prestige tubing decal. Others will have suggestions on other tubing levels, but Tange is one of the usual steels for japanese frames of the era. I've had the opportunity to ride a Tange #1 Centurion Ironman, and even if it was two sizes too small it was a real joy to ride.

I have a Schwinn Prologue (made in Japan by Panasonic) with Tange Prestige tubing that fits what your looking for.

What size do you need??.....heck, I could almost sell you a complete bike if I throw on all of my spare parts.

What era Schwinn LeTour do you have? I'm pretty sure a mid- to late-80's model LeTour frame is as standard as any of the other possibilities mentioned here. I don't know enough about the earlier LeTours, but I'd guess they would be standard as well.

What do you consider standard sizing?

I've got a 62cm Ironman (Tange 1) you can have for shipping.
It's so tall it makes me mad.

..frame.

By non-standard, do you mean really non-standard or just threaded headset and square taper BB?

The early Le Tours from the '70s would have had JIS headsets rather than English standard, and 21.1 stem but everything else was standard.

Now there's a good deal for him! That's a big frame though

I'm looking for 54-55 cm. By standard sizing I mean a frame where most parts could be found at a bike shop, or most of the parts I could buy off of Rivendell's site would fit. I looked at a few of those models on some sites, I really like the look of the Nishiki frames overall. I'm waiting on Rivendell's spring '09 line of slightly less expensive bikes, so I'd just need it until then. I'd probably re-paint it since I'm looking for forest green (I have an obsession with the color combined with Brooks saddles).

I'd also probably convert it to 650B (I drank Grant's Kool-Aid) and would preferably like a removable head badge so that I could paint it and re-use it.

I'm slowly learning more about bikes, it seems like it's endless and I'll never really know it all, but I'm willing to learn!

Thanks for the info guys, very helpful!

Anything else I should know regarding this?

I'm in Pasadena, by the way, incase anyone knows a good shop or place to pick up one of the aforementioned bikes!

If you want to use 650B wheels then you should get a frame designed to fit them. Or 26" wheels or 650A wheels. Putting 650B on a frame designed for 700C would look a bit odd; like Bill Walton's bicycle.

Perhaps a Kogswell would suit you? https://kogswell.com/

650b is questionable, hard to take someone that uses those seriously.

Abandon the 650 thing...it'll more aggravating than its worth.

Let's see... standard sizing... 650b...

Sounds mutually exclusive to me.

But, I think what you might want is a 26" wheeled roadster.

Edit: What about a Raleigh Sport? And they came in green! But I think they had their own sizing issues, didn't they?

While I admire Rivendell and what Grant is trying to do, I'd suggest you could get equal performance and enjoyment from a multitude of 60s or 70s frames you could pick up for less than 100 bucks and refurbish good as new for a few hundred more. Look for a Reynolds frame and Campagnolo dropouts, probably English as opposed to French to avoid compatibility issues, or an Italian frame in Columbus, though they may be more "race" oriented. Get the size right, build it up with good components and you'll be in heaven!

The Rivendells are nice (and expensive), but these old frames are what they're emulating...

Nothing wrong with many of the Japanese frames either, though not my knowledge base.

Not at all. They look great. 650B wheels look really nice on older vintage bikes.

I don't know, check this link someone else posted, conversions...

Look good to me!

https://www.freewebs.com/650b/

I would look for something with pretty close tire clearance for 700c tires (radially), and avoid anything that was built for 27" since they would need brake reaches longer than are readily available to reach the rims in most cases.

If you get something built for 27" wheels, you are probably already getting a bike that by todays standards needs long reach brakes, and then you'll need an additional 23mm or so of reach to get to the braking surface. For 700c, you are looking at 19mm, so even there, you should look for a bike that has minimal brake reach, so you are probably limited to bikes with pretty tight geometry to get the brake reach you need.

If the bike you are considering can take fenders with 700c wheels, you probably won't get the brake reach to convert to 650b without using drop bolts or some other "trick".

I know where there's a 53cm Gios w/Dura Ace front-rear for about $475 shipped. I'm sure it's dirty, but it's Columbus SLX and DA, not a bad combo.

Other than that, from 27" to 700c roll the dice, chances are about even. 27 or 700 t 650, the house wins every time.

If you really want 650, you may find them in tri bikes, and "upconvert" them to roadies.

Or buy an East Hill bike and get a really long stem and seatpost. Good luck.

Is this too small?

Aw, c'mon John! You can't just bash on their heavy and mushy frames, you have to include the poor workmanship, too. Nonetheless, I love mine for what it is, even if it is heavy. I pretty much use it for night time riding, so I won't bust up a Paramount!

BTW, I thought of you when I saw this Semi-Pro frame on Ebay. I laughed at his obscene buy it now price, which was around $200, and it went for $38.

It looks to me as though the front fork was designed for 650B or 26", if not the entire bike. The description suggests the bike was designed for 650B. Very nice looking bike.

How's this look:



Cinelli thought 20" wheels would be the next big thing and had Fausto Coppi try it out.

You guys are awesome, thank you so much for all of the great info, I need a bit to think about all of this!

I'll keep an eye out for all of the above bikes, I like the idea of a Reynolds frame and Campagnolo dropouts, I'll probably look for that or a Nishiki.

Thanks again guys, I'll let you know what I get!

(I still think I'll eventually get a Rivendell in '09)