sykerocker 

As my initial background is antique cars and motorcycles, my knee jerk reaction is to put a 25 year cutoff. Anything that old or older is vintage. And yes, that means bikes with brifters are going to be vintage in a few years. 25 years from now, Trek Madone's are going to be vintage. I don't want to see the modern replacement.

Classic is a term I stay away from at all costs. Mainly because your classic could be my garbage, or visa versa. When I here it, I understand the intent, and stay away from any judgements.

sapolin

I guess I'm getting the hang of it now.

thank you to all who answered !

Sap.

rhm

I'm in the process of buying a Counterpoint Opus II semi-recumbent tandem. The Opus was either the first, or one of the first, bicycles with this design, and first appeared around 25 years ago. I don't know how many of them they sold; the company that made them went out of business in 1995. But this design was taken over by two custom builders who still include it (with various improvements) among their offerings; and a further modified version of the same bicycle is manufactured in Germany; and one similar to that is made in Taiwan....

So, to summarize... The Opus II pioneered a new design that is now rather widely copied; and this makes it a 'classic.' Furthermore it is a made-in-USA product of a company that is no longer in business; this makes it a bit of a rarity and, I suppose, 'collectible.' And it MAY, just may, have friction shifters, which may make it 'vintage'. To my mind the nature of the shifters makes little or no difference; I may change that anyway.

cudak888 

Politically correct, are we?

I've always thought the term "old school" to be a tad demeaning, if you do not mind me saying so.

-Kurt

Kommisar89

You make a good point rhm - what constitutes C&V varies significantly between types of bicycles. This forum tends to focus mainly on vintage lightweight bikes that have a history going back many decades but for other types of bikes that might have only become commonly available (I hesitiate to say "invented" 'cause then somebody will dig up a Leonardo di Vinci sketch of one from 500 years ago ) in the 80's or later, C&V might have a completely different meaning. Mountain bikes are probably the most obvious example.

T-Mar

C&V = Circumstantial & Vague.

cudak888 

Bingo.

-Kurt

viscount

Surely 'Vintage' has to be age related, or else it means all things to all men.
And hence means nothing much.
My idea is pre 1939.
Whether it is a Rolls Royce or Austin 7 it is still vintage if it pre-dates the cut off.

But we are never going to agree on the date.
Are we?

revelstone

i think it's just means something we won't pay the "new" price for and so are happy when we find something cheap that used to be good in it's day. it's like if someone shoots a duck with a flintlock that was actually lost by Daniel Boone when he was alive. but they shot the duck yesterday. as opposed to going to the local gun shop and buying the newest thing off the rack, and shooting a duck. the duck is still dead, but who's having duck for supper. well both of the shooters of course. one says this cost me $1200 for the new gun. the other says i found this flintlock and this is goooood duck. both are happy with the duck, and the price they paid. to each his own. :-)

RobbieTunes

a duck walks into a bar....

iab

True, but some of us are willing spend more on a vintage bike than a new bike. Think 1958 DeRosa or 1980 Joe Breeze. The bonus is if you drop $1,500 on a bike, the new bike will be worth half that in three years and the vintage bike will probably be worth more.

Netdewt

I don't think anyone's posted an actual definition yet. I think you could look at it one of two ways:

-OR-

The second definition basically opens it up to anything. The word vintage was never intended to mean old. The name of the forum isn't right if this is a forum for old bikes or cheap bikes.

Kommisar89

Sounds a lot better than the "Old Bikes I Dug Out of the Trash Forum" though.

Erzulis Boat 

I base it on my experience with cycling.

I consider any quality bike that is pre-1985 to fit my definition.

I come from the generation of Gios, Guerciotti, Faggin, Teledyne, Rigi, Colnago, Gitane, DeRosa, Paramount, Zeuss, etc.

Campagnolo Components, friction shifters and sidepulls etc.

The golden age when I was still in school without a care in the world.

1990s bikes don't cut it for me in the "Vintage" department, this was a transitional period with gruppos that didn't have the old feel, and don't work as good as the latest stuff (Record, DuraAce).

Cannondales and Fat Chance are some of the names that I could never love.

My collection has Pinarellos, Faggins, Benotto, Paramount, Gios, Raleigh etc. Hand built lugged frames baby.

revelstone

vin·tage (vntj)
n. 1. The yield of wine or grapes from a vineyard or district during one season.
2. Wine, usually of high quality, identified as to year and vineyard or district of origin.
3. The year or place in which a wine is bottled.
4. a. The harvesting of a grape crop.
b. The initial stages of winemaking.

5. Informal a. A group or collection of people or things sharing certain characteristics.
b. A year or period of origin: a car of 1942 vintage.
c. Length of existence; age.


adj. 1. Of or relating to a vintage.
2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.
3. Old or outmoded.
4. a. Of the best: played songs that were vintage Cole Porter.

mishmashmusic

I actually like the sound of that one

Road Fan

well, we could do worse, such as "Creaky and Crotchety" lol

But I really do agree, especially since someone is bound to mix it up as "old skool."

CrankyFranky

No! Not if it's gotta be ten years older than me!

Road Fan

So these adjective defintions, especially 2, capture the essence of what we mean, but give no guidance. It's all just subjective.

Paradoxically 3 connotes the opposite!

Netdewt

How about pre- John McCain?

swif

My bike isn't even pre-Obama...

lotek 

1) the unofficial name for this forum is Cranky&Vintage. I'm beginning to lean towards Cranky&Vain.
2) I tend to agree with Dale's cut off criteria, however we play it fast and loose here. We tend
to stretch KOF a bit, and we don't exclude all but lightweights. A date? ok, as Admin on these here
forums I'm going to say 1983, why 1983 you ask? is it because it was the last year for Super Record,
Nuovo record and Gran Sport? was it because in 1984 Delta brakes and catalog 18 were introduced which lead directly to synchro shifting which lead to brifters which lead to eternal damnation?
Was it to Copy Dale at CR?
no, I'd choose that date because that was the year that Tullio Campagnolo passed away, thus ending
an era. So for me the classic 'era' spans 0AD thru 1983AD. everything else is KOF.

Marty

Kommisar89

Now you've opened up a can of worms. KOF huh?

noodlenoggin

Awwwww. So my 1988-ish Cannondale isn't a classic, then? Even with the hardtail frame, and Biopace stuff, and everything??

SirMike1983 

For me:

Vintage: 25 years old or older
Ancient: Prior to WWII
Classic: a celebrated or noteworthy model that also qualifies as vintage.
Relic: vintage category met and also showing substantial wear

In all honesty I don't even read topics like "my vintage 1994 Trek mountain bike". It's not that I think the bike "beneath" anything, 1994 is just too current to grab my interest. It's different for everyone, I guess.