bmaxwell

I have a mid 90's bianchi with campo veloche compnents... I called a bike shop and was talking to the guy about my bike and he was almost rude in his insistance that the newer components are so much more advanced now than they were in the 90's... I am wondering how so... what has changed so much in about 14 years?

rhenning

The newer dual pivot brakes are probably better than either side or center pulls. I guess the more gears could be better but I personally don't think so. Other than that I can't think of much. You should remember the kid you talked was probably 4 or 5 years old when your bike was built and therefore must be inferior be cause it is outside his realm of experience. Roger

bmaxwell

thanks... I know that in the early 90's lat 80's that is when the big jump from the old shifters to the ultegra style happened....

the guy knew the campo line up from the time period that my bianchi is... he knew that there were about 2 or 3 groupos that where higher up on the food chain than mine... but still insisted that todays are so much better... and that replacement parts could be tough to come by.... my whole bike weighs about 20-22 pounds so I am not sure what todays frames weigh but I don't think that that much has changed on the weight...

I took several years off of this sport and am just trying to get back up to speed....

SoreFeet

Most bike shops nowadays are not at all retro friendly. There are many great niche stores like Harris Cyclery or Yellow Jersey/Cycle Art that do a wonderful job of keeping bicycles on the road.

The bike store is a corporate lobby of product placement. Your old Bianchi is not as good as new because its simply old. Your LBS is stupid and you should not give them a cent. Buy everything from the internet. You don't have to feel guilty because mom and pop internet outlets do it better for less.

Buy yourself a couple hundred worth of tools and you'll be good to go. Components have gotten progressively better but not by a huge margin.

A high quality machined bottom bracket spindle with loose bearings can be very light and reliable. Brakes have improved somewhat. In the future I think we'll see more disc brake setups on road machines.

The integrated shifting is a nice luxury but it is just that...Friction shifting takes more time, its not easy to access but flicking a lever up a fraction of centimeter to get a dead quiet chain is nice for me...It works and I don't care about riding on the hoods and shifting.

The only thing better about new stuff is the ease of parts replacement. But even that can be a PIA. Campy seems to want to change spline patterns more frequently than Shimano. If you are using old 8 speed then you might have problems finding stuff. Other than that your bike shop is full of BS.

bmaxwell

I have the shifters in the brake handles... with the thumb ratchet... it is a total of 16 speeds... so it is not that old and out of date... so I am wondering what has campy changed since then that makes the new ones ssssooooo much better?

tashi

Since the mid '90's? Shifting is easier under load (shaped chainrings and cogs), brakes probably haven't changed much, everything is lighter and there are more gears which makes for closer gear ratio spacing. External bearing BB's are a godsend as far as I'm concerned, but they don't exactly render square tapers irrelevent or nonfunctional, and I'm not even sure if Campy makes them yet.

There are tons of small refinements that matter at the high-end, high-performance of the spectrum, but to most cyclists this is rarely percieved or important.

Personally, I'd just ride the hell out of it and upgrade as your needs and preferences become known to you.

My personal needs are met best by '90's steel bikes with Shimano 8 (or 9) speed when it comes to road bikes as I just want a reliable, durable, comfortable and fast machine for all-weather long-distance rides. I may feel the need to modernize as things wear out but for me most of the advancements since the development of STI/Ergo and dual-pivot brakes are most useful to people in competitive road racing situations.

Massive disclaimer: I've only ridden or owned STI-equiped bikes, never Ergo. The Campy Ergo stuff may have improved significantly since the early 90's, I have no idea.

cs1

In your case Veloce has really morphed into a much higher end product than you have. The dual pivot brakes, as already stated, are far superior to your single pivots. Early Campy indexing was not so good. Shimano was light years ahead. Current Campy shifters are probably the best available. Ramped and pinned chainrigs mean smoother and faster shifts up front. Something the flat 7 & 8 sp chainring bikes didn't have. The Ultra Torque crank/BB is noticabley stiffer than the square taper you're using. Campy low spoke count wheels are also much stiffer and lighter than anything availabe in the nineties.

With that said, there isn't really anything wrong with your group, other than parts availablity. Good luck and good riding.

stronglight

I can't speak of Campy components, but the main differences I see in Shimano's lie only in the continual quest for lightness.

My 1989 8-speed Shimano wheelset will still accept a 9 or 10 speed Shimano cassette, but the quick-release skewer, lever and end nuts were all steel, so a bit heavier... the hubs also have the huge weight of 32 conventionally laced spokes (rather than half a dozen funky radial spokes on each side of a wheel) and this was their top-end Dura-Ace hubset. STI 8-speed brifters came out around 1991 and Dual pivot brakes around 1990, and I can see little difference or improvements in these. The Dura-Ace cranks already had matched profiled chainrings to aid shifting by the early 1990s, but all the further slight modifications or refinements to the pins and ramps from SuperGlide to HyperDrive to whatever the latest catch word was, were really more to help with shifting over triple cranksets. HyperGlide profiled cassette cogs with ramps and specific "on or off" oriented teeth have been around throughout the 1990s. D-A still used a square tapered spindle, steel cups and ball bearings in retainers around 1990, so the basic bottom bracket has indeed changed (several times over) again, to lighten the overall weight. The D-A 1" threaded headset in 1990 still had ball bearings in alloy cups, then cartridge bearings a few years later... now threadless headsets made for cut-to-fit / one-size-fits-all steering tubes of generic aftermarket carbon fiber forks are all you'll find on most bikes. Seatposts are longer, and with thinner walls and many are now carbon fiber, so they are lighter than what was available in 1990... but saddles still have 2 rails.

So, yes, you CAN easily drop 5 pounds on even a very poorly made and cheap modern Asian built bike compared to yours... But, I suspect there have been very few true technological changes or advances during the past 15+ years.

So, just ignore what some ignorant shop clerk wants to sucker you into buying. Or, just for fun, have him specify exactly WHY the newer components are significantly "better" than your own.

bbattle

When you visit the bike shop, check out the mechanics and talk to the oldest one(the one that's been there the longest). They won't usually be telling you to upgrade your old stuff unless it is broken or low grade.

I can tell you my 2005 Ultegra shifts like butter, the brakes could stop a truck, and the crankset is stiff and light.

The newer Campy stuff will be lighter, possibly shift a bit better(maybe), and cost considerably more. Oh, and they now have an 11-speed cassette. They also changed the shifting mechanism so it no longer quick shifts through the range with just one push on the lever. Older Campy users miss this feature, newbies won't.

texraid

I can't comment on the difference in components since I only ride old steel but I concur with SoreFeet.

As far as I'm concerned a business is in business to take care of it's customers. I will not tolerate rudeness and will tell everyone I know of my experience, not to mention, I can usually buy the same thing online anyway.

Several years ago I had a rude encounter with a salesperson and while he was running my credit card for $600 I got madder. I called over the manager/owner and told him to cancel the sale, that his employee just cost him my business. His jaw dropped as I walked out never to return. I drove over to his competitor, got great service, and the extra $5.00 I paid was well worth it.

roccobike

I don't have Campy so I can't comment on that brand. But there have been improvements in shifters and derailers in the Shimano line-up. IMHO, this benefits the mid level models the most. As an example, the DA front dr shifters had a half shift adjustment added many years ago. That has worked its way down first to Ultegra and now to 105. Derailer actions, especially rear, have been improved over the years, but it's not a huge improvement so it is not noticed. MTB shifters have improved quite a bit over the trigger shifters that were available in the early to mid 90s. Some of the entry level stuff available today is quite good.

Rabid Koala

My wife and I took our dog out for a walk last night and stopped to look in the window of a local bike shop. Pretty much everything in sight through the window was carbon fiber. I didn't see anything that compelled me to go in and try it out, but then my newest bike is a 1992.

When I got my first "vintage" bike, I made the mistake of going into a couple of LBS's looking for parts. It was a rude (literally) awakening. I know of one or two that are friendly, and there are a couple I will never return to.

Happily, we have the internet for parts shopping. It might be annoying sometimes but isn't rude and hostile!

bmaxwell

Thanks guys... can I say on here what shop I talked to??? It was a rather LARGE on in the Seattle area... it is in the Green Lake area... if that gives any HUGE clues I think it was started by someone named Greg.... hhhhmmm I think you can put the pieces together if you are familiar with the Seattle cycling scene... Thanks to all the great responses I got I appreciate it.


My other bike is from the early 90's and it has suntour on it... and well I read yesterday about the demise of suntour... I did get some of their best work on my nishiki... at least that is what I was reading said... **SIGH*** oh the good old days when the bike world morphed the late 80's early 90's.... you know the gruppo language has not changed since then... ultegra was king then just like now... the 105 was happening and the campi line up is very much the same.... it is all just tweeked... so in my book anything with trigger shiffting is modern.....

sykerocker 

What's improved? My opinion, based on heavy riding from 1969-1977, absolutely no riding between 1978-2004, and then back into the sport with both feet starting in 2005 - and busting ass overtime to catch up on all the missed technology, riding and working on everything I can get from the missed years:

1. Brifters are a huge improvement over downtube shifters. They, of course, are based on indexed shifting which was an incremental improvement over friction shifting.

2. Dual pivot brakes are better than the old stuff, be they center or sidepull. V-brakes and cantilevers are better than dual pivots. I'll happily ride my more modern braked bikes down my driveway (insanely steep to a busy street at the bottom, absolutely no bailout space should something go wrong). My vintage stuff gets walked down.

3. The 7+ speed cassettes are a nice incremental improvement. Of more importance is the ability to easily roll your own gear combinations compared to freewheels. Unfortunately, the marketing system for individual cogs attempts to defeat the advantage.

4. Coupling cassettes with brifters is a major improvement. I shift my modern bikes at least three times as much on a ride as my vintage, but I keep a better cadence no matter what the change in terrain, for a lot less effort or thought.

5. Modern 700c clincher tyres? Eh! They're still 'almost as good' as sewups. That's something that hasn't changed in 40 years.

6. Can't really comment on modern frames, as I've only owned two so far. Aluminum is OK, steel is still nicer, haven't tried any other materials. Aluminum frames however are nowhere near as bad as some old steel fanatics have tried to make me believe. And my 'cheap' Fuji feels just as good as any Reynolds or Columbus frame I've ever owned, so there's definitely some value for dollar improvement in there.

7. Modern clipless pedals (I ride Look, SPD and traditional clips and straps) are an incremental improvement. I can be equally happy with any of the alternatives.