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Gianella (Marinoni?)

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Gianella (Marinoni?)

Old 09-29-08, 10:39 PM
  #1  
LgReno
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Gianella (Marinoni?)

Hi panel of experts,

last weekend i got a free bike with brand name Gianella (stickers). From what i have been able to get from the Internet, there is a LBS in montreal by the name of Cycles Gianella. Somehow there may be a tie with the frame maker Marinoni and that LBS where apparently Marinoni provided the LBS with some of his frames, which were subsequently branded Gianella. Is this true? is there a way to identify this bike? is it any good?

Here are all the pics i took:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Renaud.daenzer/Gianella#

specs:

12 speed
breaks: shimano SLR
f.d: shimano L-H light action
r.d: shimano light action
frame: _ _ _ _ IWATA CrMo double butted fork and stay

any information would be super, thanks
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Old 09-30-08, 05:36 AM
  #2  
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The Gianella and Marinoni relationship is true. However, I have never known Marinoni to manufacture with Ishiwata. The frame may be outsourced, by either Gianella or Marinoni. Marinoni did this with ATB frames. Check the bottom bracket for serial numbers (there may be two) and report back. The components indicate circa 1986-1988. Ishiwata 022 is good tubing and during this period was found on mid-range frames. The components themselves are upper, entry level.

Of course, you could always go direct to the source. Cycles Gianella is stil in operation (at least they were when I last stopped in, 2 years ago) on Boulevard des Sources and should be in the telephone directory. The owners, John and Barry, are not historically orientated like a lot C&V members and may only be able to provide genreral info. However, they are great guys and will I'm sure will help to the best of their collective memory.
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Old 10-01-08, 10:17 PM
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The Serial number on the BB is:

W 68325
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Old 10-02-08, 06:27 AM
  #4  
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I couldn't open the pic, but I'm pretty certain this is not a Marinoni manufactured frame. None of the Marinoni (or Marinoni produced Gianella) I've owned or seen have had a letter prefix to the serial number . Furthermore that is too large a serial number for Marinoni. In the Marinoni format, the first number reperersents the year and the remaining numbers are the frame number. While 6 (i.e. 1986) is a good fit for the year based on the componments, a frame number of 8325 is far too high. During this era, Marinoni was only manufacturing about 1000 frames a year.

I also revisited your original pics. About the only pic which shows the frame finishing is the one of the rear dropout. While the style of finishing the stay end is representative of Marinoni, the level of finish is not.

Another thing worth checking is the threading for the bottom bracket, which is typically stamped on the fasces of the cups. During this period, Marinoni was still using Italian threading, so if it's English, that would substantiate a non-Marinoni frame.
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Old 10-02-08, 07:37 AM
  #5  
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Hi T-Mar,

The letter prefix of the serial number is actually quite spread out from the numbers.
i.e: W 68325
perhaps changes things... i donno.

What does "the style of finishing" and "level of finishing" mean to you. I'm still a noob... but im learning fast. What sort of shots and angles (locations) do i need to take in order to show you more examples of the finishing, and well for the purpose of understanding the definition and workmanship that goes into making a frame.

As for checking the threading of the BB i do not understand what really to look for. I found out the discrepancies between English and Italian threads... but as far as checking this, do i have to basically take off the crank?

I've found the number of the Gianella shop and im gonna give em a call soon!

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply, you've been super helpful
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Old 10-02-08, 07:38 AM
  #6  
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****... the spaces didn't show in the post...

lets try it differently:

W..........68325
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Old 10-02-08, 08:46 AM
  #7  
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I've saved you the trouble of a phone call. I just talked with Barry and he confirmed that during this period they were sourcing Japanese built Ishiwata 022 frames though Guvin of Toronto, the company that produced Miele bicycles.

The spacing of the W is irrelevant as the serial number is still too high to be a Marinoni frame.

As to workmanship, on your dropouts you can clearly see where the stay tube ends and the dropout starts. On a Marinoni frame, the transition is so smooth that they almost look like one piece. Unfortunately, I cannot find where the wife has put the camera right now, but I'll try to post a pic of my Marinoni built Ginanella dropouts for to-morrow.

The threading should be stamped on the faces of the bottom bracket cups. You should be able to read it on the non-drive side, without removing the crankarms. Again, I'll post pics once I find the camera.

Given my talk with Barry, the serial number and the workmanship, I think it's pretty conclusive that your Gianella was not built by Marinoni.
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Old 10-02-08, 09:35 AM
  #8  
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Thats so funny that you found out all this information. You posted at 10:46 and i made the call at exactly 10:33am (outgoing calls history). And just read your post now at 11:30ish.

I basically asked to put a date on it...gave me a range of 85-88. Said a bike like that sold for around 500-600 back then.. equivalent to 800-1100 today depending on year and price according to inflation.

As for the tubing the man said it was very good tubing (Ishiwata) outsources by Guvin (sounded more like Gauvin to me on the phone). So your absolutely correct about it not being a marinoni - its an accepted fact... actually... has been since your post about the serial number. At this point, my interest was understanding quality, finish etc.

Lastly, i asked a technical question about the jammed seat post. He mentioned taking off the crank, flipping the bike and spraying some releasall into the seat tube and let it do its work.
-whats you take on that? and what about this "framesaver" stuff i just started to read about?
also... more on restoration would you recommend replacing the wires and cables? I feel that the only big thing would be to clean the bike, degrease the cassette, clean the dérailleurs and add a new chain.

Im quite happy with this bike considering it was given to me for free.

again T-mar, Thanks for you awesome help.

Reno
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Old 10-02-08, 09:49 AM
  #9  
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Stuck seat posts can be very frustrating and hard to remove, to the point that this is the first thing that many cyclists check for when buying a used bicycle. I haven't heard of Release-All (sp?), but if Barry or John suggested it, I would give it a try. I have used ammonia, with varying degrees of success. Rather than re-iterating all the other options, I'll just refer you to Sheldon Brown's article. Good luck.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/stuck-seatposts.html

We'll continue the talk on quality and workmanship to-morrow, after I find the camera.
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Old 10-07-08, 03:16 PM
  #10  
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Well, I finally got the camera back. My son had it at school for a project.

Attched is a pic of the rear dropout on my Marinoni built Gianella. As you will note there is a much higher degree of finishing where the tubes meet the dropout. On the OP's you can distinctly tell where the tubes end and the dropout starts. It's functional but not very pretty. On mine the flow from the tubes to the dropouts is very smooth, looking like they are almost one part.
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Old 10-07-08, 03:53 PM
  #11  
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Definitely a much higher degree of finishing there.
I still really like the gianella.
I even bought a bike stand just to work on it.

I cleaned it up really nice. Got the seat tube out. first i tried Releaseall soaking in there for too long... really not doing anything since i later realized the seat post was out of aluminum... and if its Al2O3 forming.. it wont get dissolved by that (furthermore... the seat tube is hollow.. and I handn't put enough releasall to work on the affected zone. only noticed after i finally got it out). So like a crazy scientist... i went to school and picked up 2 lbs of dry ice (solid CO2) and droped some in the seat tube... freezing the al. post and hence shrinking it (maybe ill do the calculation later to figure out if it was theoretically possible... ) - but it didnt work.... although everything got really cold. -78C cold baby. Finally got it loose putting in a vice and toquing the seatpost with the frame. it got loose and after labouring for a while i got it out. (didnt need more dry ice... although i kinda wish i did... just for the show..)


Its got the McGill colours (and now white handle bar tape).. and imna use it for the McGill Cycling team's weekly "ride your beater ride". Should be lots of fun since i already got the red and white helmet and soon ill get my McGill gear (red/white). its gonna be a fun bike... oh and it weights 24lbs... not bad im thinking.

ill post some pics after tomorrow when i get home to take some
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Old 10-08-08, 07:54 AM
  #12  
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Glad to hear that you got the post loosened.

The Miele from this period and level were quality bicycles, so there is no reasons yours should not be. The level of finish is primarily a measure of time and therefore money. Certainly, Marinoni built models offer other improvements, but your model is more than competent and a good value.

I thought the bicycle looked a little more orange than red in the pics. Either way, the bicycle would have gone well with the Gianella team jersey of the period. They were white with diagonal stripes of navy blue, red and orange.

I should be in Montreal, sometime over the next couple of days, so I'll keep an eye out for your bicycle.
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Old 10-10-08, 01:29 PM
  #13  
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Finally some pics:

https://picasaweb.google.ca/Renaud.daenzer/Gianella#

The before pics are first.. then the after ones come up.

The bottle holder was a near little project. I sanded all the rust and spray painted the bottle holder attachement part. 3 white coats and 3 clear coats. it looks really neat. and the rusted chrome bottle holder was spared by lightly sanding off the rust (very abundant) and polishing.

The bike is now my downtown commuter...so i needed to get a serious lock.. and some lights to be seen. I find its a serious eye soar... but theres no way i wanna be carrying this thing around all over the place.
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Old 06-16-09, 10:40 PM
  #14  
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Hi T-Mar,
You've helped me previously (Gianella bike) and seem quite knowageble with Quebec made bikes. I recently picked up a Mikado. Not much to be found anywhere on this bike. I dont even have a model name since the decals were scratched off in an awful way. I've actually written to pro-cycle (manufacturer back in the day) for decals (its a long shot... i know)
this is my original post with many pics.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/552512-mikado-unknown-frame.html
Perhaps you know what it is.
Looking forward to a reply.
Sincerely,
Renaud.
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Old 11-03-09, 10:48 AM
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I recently picked up an old Gianella bike that I don't know much about. Rather than start a new post, I thought I would ask my question here in this thread I found in the archives.

Before anyone says anything, no I don't think this bike is a Marinoni like the OP did, based on the components I don't even think it's high end. It just would be nice to know something about the bike/what it is made of, if that's possible. I'm hoping someone has some knowledge stored away that might help me. The guy I bought it from knew almost nothing about it.

What I know:

1. A mish-mash of components, I have no idea what was original to the bike
- SR stem/Sakae Road Champion bars (replaced with Cinelli bars/stem)
- Low level shimano RD/FD
- Ambrosio Rims/Suzue hubs (4 H LPF on rear hub)
- Dia Compe brakes
- Bianchi dropouts on both frame/fork
-Sugino VT crankset
- SR alloy stem
- Vetta seat

2. No sticker anywhere indicating frame material.

3. No serial # that I can find anywhere, just the letter A on the bottom of the frame.

I don't have a scale, but it has a nice weight to it, and the ride is great. I've really been enjoying it so far. It desperately needs a cleaning/overhaul, but that can wait a couple weeks until I retire it to the basement for the cruddy Toronto winter.

All pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/zweiduc...7622601310235/

Pics:




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Old 11-03-09, 11:03 AM
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What is the seat post diameter? It should be stamped on the post, below the insertion mark, so you may have to remove it. Can you post a pic of the rear derailleur? From what I can see, it appear to be a Z-series. If so, that would place the bicycle mid-1980s and most likely upper, entry level.

The Bianchi dropouts are interesting. I don't recall the owners of Gianella ever mentioning that they sourced via Bianchi. However, Jim Miele did source bicycles for Bianchi and we know Miele provided to Gianella, so that could be the tie.
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Old 11-03-09, 11:17 AM
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Seat post diameter: 25.4

The derailleurs are indeed Z-Series.

Thanks for the info, T-Mar
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Old 11-03-09, 11:21 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
The Bianchi dropouts are interesting. I don't recall the owners of Gianella ever mentioning that they sourced via Bianchi. However, Jim Miele did source bicycles for Bianchi and we know Miele provided to Gianella, so that could be the tie.

I know nothing - but if the Bianchi dropouts are only on the front, might it point to a possible replacement fork?
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Old 11-03-09, 11:36 AM
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Rear are Bianchi too.

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Old 11-03-09, 04:03 PM
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25.4mm post is indicative of hi-tensile steel. Too bad, I thought it might be carbon-manganese or chromium-molybdenum main tubes. It's entry level but at least it's got a cotterless crankset, aluminum rims and downtube shifters.
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Old 11-03-09, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
25.4mm post is indicative of hi-tensile steel. Too bad, I thought it might be carbon-manganese or chromium-molybdenum main tubes. It's entry level but at least it's got a cotterless crankset, aluminum rims and downtube shifters.
Wow - forged rear drop outs and adjusters on a hi-tensile steel frame. Interesting!
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Old 11-03-09, 05:23 PM
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Thanks for the info, T-Mar. I'm going to try and give Cycles Gianella a call tomorrow and see if they can tell me anything else about the bike. I'll report back once I've done that.

Regardless of what it's made of, it's a nice ride and it fits me better than anything I've had up to now, so I think I'll keep it for the time being.
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Old 11-05-09, 12:43 PM
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To those interested, I heard back from Gianella about my bike:

"That looks like one of our Ishiwata frames from Japan, round the mid 80’s sold for 429.00$ new. The equipment looks to be original issue. A new set of wheels on that frame and it’d make a nice “fixie”

Enjoy!"


I definitely won't be fixifying it, but I do have some new components to add: campagnolo/mavic wheels and some Suntour Superbe derailleurs.

Sucks I won't really get to ride it much until the spring; It's getting colder and wetter here by the day.
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Old 02-17-18, 12:25 PM
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Another Gianella Find

Might as well use the existing info and thread for this one. This pretty little (49cm) Gianella was gifted to me recently. The owner lived in Montreal at the time of purchase in the mid eighties. It was his wife's bike (Joan) and had been converted to a "fixie" as that was their challenge at the time. I re-dished and used the Super Champion rims on Pelissier HF hubs on another project. I'm sure it was built in Japan and the sticker says "Assembled in Canada". The seat post is 27.2mm. Serial Number w 6506. It remains in very good condition in it's soft pink to white fade. I'm in decided whether to sell it as is or build it back up.
Rear dropout spacing 125mm. Came with 700Cx28 and one 700Cx32 (very little clearance on the 32mm)

I think I can assume it is the Ishiwata tubing? The fork crown looks similar to some Mieles I've seen.

I contacted Gianella via their Facebook page but they knew little about it.
The original owners timeline puts it around 1985.


It makes me wonder how many are out there? Anyone have one to post?
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Old 02-17-18, 01:50 PM
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