Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

1938 Rensch

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-31-08 | 08:22 AM
  #1  
Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
1938 Rensch

Hi. I have some photographs of a restored 1938 Rensch. The bike originally belonged to my Grandfather, who was a keen cyclist. If anyone is interested, he was involved in clubs around the Reading area, in England. He passed away some years ago now, but a few years prior to that the bike was given to a friend so that it might be restored. These pictures were taken in 1999, I believe. It is shown incompletely restored, but not far off:











Here are some excerpts from a couple of letters that the new owner, who undertook the restoration, sent to my grandparents at the time:

"The frame and forks went to Argos at Bristol to be stripped, re-chromed and re-sprayed. I managed to find a small scraping of the original colour and had it analysed and re-mixed. I think you will agree it's a pretty fair match. Incidentally when the frame and forks were stripped down, the fork tube carried the Accles and Pollock mark, A/P. This must have been amongst the last batch of tube to come from the works as it was taken over by Reynolds and renamed '531'.

The wheels have been rebuilt onto the original hubs and all the bright work re-chromed, with one exception - the bell!! Well something needed to be in original condition.

A saddle was needed, so I contacted the production manager at Brooks who I have got to know quite well over the years (now sadly reitred). He was able to make me a new saddle to the 1938 pattern, as you can see from the photographs it's black with the larger steel rivets.

After searching for eighteen months, asking the same question in scores of shops, I found a transfer set in an old bike shop in Essex.

The Oz gear was more of a problem as most of the units for sale has a lot of wear, especially in the forks. Having fone so far with the Rensch I decided that only a new Oz gear would do. A long and exhaustive search eventually turned up an Oz gear set. It was complete with shifter controls, all cables and a three-speed block, unused and boxed, new from the later 1930's. It was located in the South of France by a friend on holiday. I fitted the very expensive Oz gear to the Rensch; the machine was all but complete, missing only the mudguards. Mudguards as fitted in the 1930's must have been made from celluloid - to date they have eluded me, but I am a patient man.

I must say that of all the cycles I own, the Rensch turns the most heads. In 1938 it must have been at the cutting edge of technology - the last word in road bikes."

I am also told that it was bought new for around £200. That amount in 1938 apparently can be equated with almost £10,000 today (source: https://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/). That seems an awful lot so I'm not sure how accurate the £200 figure is.

I hope you like the pictures and information - feel free to ask questions but I don't know a great deal more than I have already presented. I never saw the bike myself - well I suppose it probably did fall inside my field of vision on a few occasions, but I was young and wouldn't have been interested in it at the time.

Thanks for looking

Last edited by jd1105; 12-31-08 at 09:23 AM.
jd1105 is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 09:06 AM
  #2  
Spinz's Avatar
TCR Advanced SL
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 2
From: Ulah Proper N.C.
Great photos ----- appreciate you sharing them. Oddly it does not look that much different from latter day road bikes. It would go really well with the C&V collection at Cycles de Oro/ Classic Rendezvous. Lp
Spinz is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 09:21 AM
  #3  
wrk101's Avatar
Thrifty Bill
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,643
Likes: 1,107
From: Mans of NC & SW UT Desert

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Rear derailleur is awesome. And I am still trying to figure out the drop out.

Thanks for sharing!
wrk101 is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 12:41 PM
  #4  
juneeaa memba!
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

I think that the rear dropout is a cyclo...the dropout allows for multiple rear wheel positions, in case you want to switch off to fixed. The tang on the front keeps the cogs from hitting the striking fork when you remove the rear wheel to fix a flat or whatever, and also acts to guide the rear wheel into the dropout when changing the wheel. Claud Butlers also came with the downward tang - a Butler would be stamped CB somewhere on the dropout.
luker is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 12:44 PM
  #5  
juneeaa memba!
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

"...I am also told that it was bought new for around £200. That amount in 1938 apparently can be equated with almost £10,000 today (source: https://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/). That seems an awful lot so I'm not sure how accurate the £200 figure is..."

I just received a copy of a sheet of want-ads from USAZorro yesterday, that show in 1949 a typical bike was selling for about £20 at the top end. I suppose all things are possible, but I'd guess that we have an additional zero added by retelling or something.
luker is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 01:39 PM
  #6  
Oldpeddaller's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,638
Likes: 14
From: Maidstone, Kent, England

Bikes: 1970 Holdsworth Mistral, Vitus 979, Colnago Primavera, Corratec Hydracarbon, Massi MegaTeam, 1935 Claud Butler Super Velo, Carrera Virtuoso, Viner, 1953 Claud Butler Silver Jubilee, 1954 Holdsworth Typhoon, 1966 Claud Butler Olympic Road, 1982 Claud

Originally Posted by luker
"...I am also told that it was bought new for around £200. That amount in 1938 apparently can be equated with almost £10,000 today (source: https://www.measuringworth.com/ukcompare/). That seems an awful lot so I'm not sure how accurate the £200 figure is..."

I just received a copy of a sheet of want-ads from USAZorro yesterday, that show in 1949 a typical bike was selling for about £20 at the top end. I suppose all things are possible, but I'd guess that we have an additional zero added by retelling or something.
Excellent web-site thanks Luker! That equates to a 1937 Claud butler Tour D'Angleterre, catalogue price £17 - 7s -6d (£17. 87.5 pence in post decimal Sterling), having an actual cost of over £5,000 in today's equivalent. Not too far from my own calculations based on a 1935 average weekly wage of £1-15s-0d (£1.75 pence post decimal). So a bicycle in 1935 was a significant purchase, similar say to a new car now. However, such was the quality of workmanship that a lot of bicycles from that era still survive today, whereas few new cars registered tomorrow will survive beyond 15 to 20 years - and chain store Chinese MTB's even less! That Rensch restoration is beautiful and shows what is possible, given time and dedication.
Oldpeddaller is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 03:30 PM
  #7  
juneeaa memba!
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

I am not an expert by any means, but it isn't uncommon today (believe it or not) for an enthusiast to spring $7500 for a new racing bike. That wouldn't be too far off of the £5000 you cited. What was the dollar/pound exchange rate back in 10937?

That was JD1105's website, btw.
luker is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 03:43 PM
  #8  
cyclotoine's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,759
Likes: 19
From: Yukon, Canada
Originally Posted by luker
I think that the rear dropout is a cyclo...the dropout allows for multiple rear wheel positions, in case you want to switch off to fixed. The tang on the front keeps the cogs from hitting the striking fork when you remove the rear wheel to fix a flat or whatever, and also acts to guide the rear wheel into the dropout when changing the wheel. Claud Butlers also came with the downward tang - a Butler would be stamped CB somewhere on the dropout.
This drop-out is totally bizarre. It look like the tang is there as a sort of chain guard or limit to prevent shifting off the small cog. Since the drop-out opening is rear of the pictured axle position it wouldn't be much of a guide, would it?
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 03:57 PM
  #9  
juneeaa memba!
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

The idea must have been to start from the rear, bang the axle against the guide, and then pull backwards a little to get the wheel to move into the dropout. To run with the Osgear you'd put the wheel to the front (since there is a tension adjuster in that setup). To run fixed, you'd adjust the chain length by pulling the wheel back into the adjustable part of the dropout.

Looking at all of those proper vintage parts is torture. There isn't a wealth of that vintage any more.
I'm currently trying to rebuild some GB Coureur brakes because their center bolts are shot. Nothing much from that vintage is interchangeable...
luker is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 06:06 PM
  #10  
iab's Avatar
iab
Senior Member
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Registered
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,893
Likes: 5,435
From: NW Burbs, Chicago
Fantastic bike! Thanks for the pictures.

But I think the chain is short, which wouldn't be suprising because with the extremely long chain stays, 112 links probably would not be long enough for that set up. There is no reason for the wheel to be that far forward, the wheel should be set back in the drop outs. If you are running the 3-speed with the Osgear, the chain tensioner will take care of any slack. And if it is a flip-flop hub, you can use the same tensioner to pick up the slack if you are running fixed.

Now what that tang is for, I have no idea. But I really dont think it was ever intended to have the wheel in that position. It seems to be very insecure.
iab is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 07:28 PM
  #11  
USAZorro's Avatar
Señor Member
Titanium Club Membership
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Titanium
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,479
Likes: 1,564
From: Hardy, VA

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

I believe the front section of the dropout is for running the bicycle as a fixed gear racing machine - either on the track or path. I believe the rear dropout is for running the bicycle as a geared, or perhaps as a more general rider with a fixed gear or single speed. If you posted this with links to those pictures, one of the older gents from the UK on the CR list could confirm or correct this presumption.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 07:52 PM
  #12  
juneeaa memba!
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

I have this in my archived notes. They are Stallard ends, or similar. The prong is to keep the chain from derailing, according to the handwritten drawing. The text on the web that accompanies this drawing follows (from Vintage Lightweights):

"These drawings for Stallard rear dropouts as fitted to the Monlhery above are Percy's originals from the Stallard Archives held at Wolverhampton Library (see above).

The gear ends, lower left were designed for the Osgear. When setting up this gaer one needs to get the striker forks as close to the large sprocket as possible. With normal rear ends this creates a problem when removing the wheel as the sprockets jam up against the striker fork. With the Stallard rear end there is no forward travel of the wheel when secured in the forward position of the two. The alternative opening is for use with fixed wheel - probably in the winter. It is very difficult, if not impossible to use the Osgear rear ends for a Simplex gear.

The tang also stops the wheel from jumping forward when being replaced say after a puncture."


Now, where the wheel goes...hmmm.

Vintage Lightweights have several Readers Bikes fitted with Osgear and they are all set up like the OP's bike...in the forward part of the dropout. There are a few that don't run Stallard type dropouts, but these too have the wheel as far forward as it could possibly go...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
stallardends450.jpg (23.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg
stallard dropouts.jpg (14.6 KB, 15 views)
luker is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 08:26 PM
  #13  
iab's Avatar
iab
Senior Member
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Registered
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,893
Likes: 5,435
From: NW Burbs, Chicago
I can understand using the tang to protect damaging the derailleur during a wheel change, but I will never get the dual position. I read in The Dancing Chain that back in the day they thought using any pulley severely degraded efficiency. I suppose they didn't want to use the tensioning arm when they rode fixed.
iab is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 08:37 PM
  #14  
cyclotoine's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 8,759
Likes: 19
From: Yukon, Canada
correct me if I am wrong, but the drop-outs on the Rensch, though mechanically similar are different from the Stallard ends. If you look closely you will see the bit of red metal the goes under the axle on the Rensch (like a standard track end) which the pictured Stallard ends do not have.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 08:43 PM
  #15  
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 27,266
Likes: 152
From: YEG

Bikes: See my sig...

That is simply stunning... I love the dropouts.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 08:45 PM
  #16  
Rollfast's Avatar
What happened?
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,918
Likes: 298
From: Around here somewhere

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

However it's supposed to be set up it is simply WONDERFUL! A marvelous bike!
Rollfast is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 10:58 PM
  #17  
juneeaa memba!
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,631
Likes: 5
From: boogled up in...Idaho!

Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...

yeah...that's why I thought originally that these were cyclo dropouts. I cannot find a link that would support that, though.

It is kind of fascinating that we'd forget how the damned things are supposed to be used in a short 60 years or so. You think our great grandkids are not going to know how to load the Glock?
luker is offline  
Reply
Old 12-31-08 | 11:57 PM
  #18  
Gary Fountain's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,003
Likes: 303
From: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.

Bikes: Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 96, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.

Thanks for the photos. It is a very nice looking bike. Did you know that Osgear was the first derailling system allowed in the Tour de France in 1937.

It is a nice derailling system that works quite well provided it is adjusted correctly. I wonder if it was the first 'indexed' gear system with the indexed gear lever plate? It is also lightweight and bikes could rival the weight of steel bikes from the 80's.

The Charter Lea cranks are a quality touch as well.

I do know that there is a group of British enthusiasts dedicated to Osgear.
Gary Fountain is offline  
Reply
Old 01-01-09 | 12:41 AM
  #19  
USAZorro's Avatar
Señor Member
Titanium Club Membership
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Titanium
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,479
Likes: 1,564
From: Hardy, VA

Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs

Originally Posted by cyclotoine
correct me if I am wrong, but the drop-outs on the Rensch, though mechanically similar are different from the Stallard ends. If you look closely you will see the bit of red metal the goes under the axle on the Rensch (like a standard track end) which the pictured Stallard ends do not have.
That was my observation also. The forward position is like a track drop-out, and the rear like a "normal" one.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline  
Reply
Old 01-01-09 | 10:12 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 1
From: Pleasanton Tx

Bikes: old,older.and very old

MORE!!! I love those pics.Wish we had more of bikes from that time---more of this bike too---sam
frameteam2003 is offline  
Reply
Old 01-01-09 | 11:04 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
Likes: 2
From: Bristol, British Isles
The rear dropouts on the Rensch are Super Champion and designed specifically for use with the Osgear. They were in the pre-war Constrictor catalogues. They are being used correctly - when a gear is used the wheels are mounted in the front section of the dropout - effectively a vertical dropout. If you wanted to use a hub gear or a fixed wheel, the axle was mounted in the standard type rear section so there was adjustment for the chain tension. Do you have the frame number - it would be very interesting to know as it is one of the earliest REnschs known...

Hilary Stone, Bristol, UK
Hilarystone is offline  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.