cycleheimer

Vintage Bike Collecting as compared to Vintage Car Collecting costs less (sometimes nothing); requires less storage space; doesn't involve alot of...or any...paperwork (titles, registration, etc.); doesn't require annual insurance premiums; and typically gives you alot fewer headaches of a mechanical nature. There is also alot of information & data out their on makes and models to spice things up; riding them is a good form of recreation and excercise; and they invoke a sense of nostalgia. Any Jay Lenos (well known celebrity & car collector) of the bike collecting world out there who want to comment?

John E

I feel the same way every time I attend a Rods and Woodies cruise night or the annual Wavecrest Woodies meet. I do not have space, money, or time for vintage car collecting, and I hate the idea of driving a gas-guzzling, pre-catalyst, pre-ECU exhaust-spewing car, even a beautiful old vintage machine. My friend Dave Grove probably has the right idea with his electric conversion 1933 Rolls Royce shooting brake, which is on display at this year's San Diego Auto Show.

(I do admit it was a blast to watch the Tour d'Elegance in Carmel last summer, so I am glad some folks are into preserving our automotive heritage, but give me my classic bicycles any time.)

phillyrider

I think it depends...I have a 1966 VW bug and a 1960's Frejus. You can go overboard going for perfection or just enjoy the quirks, missing paint, and personality of both. Come to think of it, the VW bug and Frejus are somewhat similiar (pantina and all). I am not the type to show a car or show a bike - but both are great fun for a weekend cruise. Annual cost on vintage cars are not that bad. I pay about $200/year on insurance, there's no inspection/registration, and I may go through a battery once in a while (it's not bad). I am no Jay Leno, but think that you can enjoy both. I do a local July 4th parade ride, and the cars are like mine (better condition, but not show material). There's always a guy who has a car that also doubles as a boat (find that in your bike collection...)

I do wonder for those who have a vintage/classic car, are they similiar to you selection of a bike (i.e. de rosa/masi => porche, paramount => corvette, varsity => chevette)?

RFC

My thoughts exactly. I already have one sports car in the garage -- a 2003 BMW Z4. As I often explain, my bike collection is like a vintage sports car collection at an infinitesimal fraction of the cost.

vincev

i believe cars and bikes can live in harmony when it comes to collecting.i enjoymy older cars as much as my bikes.the insurence is cheap and they are cool to drive in the summer.the bikes do take up a lot less room.i have put an older style bike rack on the old cars to transport my bikes when riding them is not practical.i would post a few pics of the old cars but i dont want to turn this into a car forum.

bigbossman 

If I had the resources, I'd collect vintage cars. Automobiles are fascinating, and I love to drive. It's the reason I like to ride bikes as well - the lure of the open road.

But, I'm not Jay Leno or Reggie Jackson, or for that matter Jerry Seinfeld. I don't have the income, and I've no place to put them.

Geordi Laforge

here's my living room:

Geordi Laforge

not actually my living room.

riva

Now somebody post a pic with 6 cars in a living room.

BengeBoy 

How about building a living room in your garage:






https://ultimategarages.net/garages/garages.html


Or, like Jerry Seinfeld, you could build a NY townhome / garage specifically to hold your Porsche collection:
https://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0527041jerry1.html

Doohickie

If you want to get into the vintage car scene and want garage like that, you can probably buy one of the dealership buildings cheap with the car dealerships going under. Keep your eyes open for bankruptcy sales.

My youngest son is a senior in high school and I'd been talking about getting an old car to restore once I didn't have marching band competitions, football games, and choir concerts to attend. I'd been talking about it for a few years. Then in February I started riding my '84 Nishiki Olympic 12 to work. Sadly, I wrecked it on my second commute, bending the frame. Happily, that led me to keep my eyes open for thrifty replacement bikes and I now own 4 other bikes, the newest of which is a 1994 NOS Nishiki hybrid.

I really have no interest in getting the old car anymore. I just want to putter around with bikes, at least for now. Whenever I spend some money on them, I remind the wife not only that this hobby is so much less expensive than an old car would be, but also that this hobby pays for itself in reduced gasoline and wear & tear on the car I do have. Win-win-win.

Grim

Thats sort of a misconception about the emissions parts. Yeah a old cars didn't have as much in the way of emissions but the fact is a Cat cleans up a car that is running poorly. a Good running car that has been tuned to altitude will run clean without a cat. My 79 K5 Blazer got 15mpg city and 17 hwy (my 4cyl 4Runner gets 18/24) was missing cats and passed the sniffer on the smog test just fine and did so for 3 years till the tech actually looked to see it was missing and faild it on Visual not what was coming out of the tail pipes. It was about the same MPG once I did install a expensive set of highflow pair of Cats but it seems to loose some off the line pep from it.

My 1970 Lemans Convertible gets 17mpg. If it had Overdrive it would get 19+. It can lay a pair of black marks 200ft no problem and it has a 350hp engine.

My tow rig suburban (454) would get better MPG without emissions control. I have a bud with Crew cab truck 4 years older then mine before fuelinjection was installed in it that is heavier but has the same basic 454 engine, TH400 transmission and gear ratio and tire size but is carberated and nothing but a EGR and PCV in the way of emmisons and gets a full 2mpg better mileage then my lighter and emission control (Cat, Smog pump) laden truck. Another buddy with a newer 454 Suburban with more refined Fuel injection (No smog pump) and overdrive gets 14 mpg with a REALLY light foot. So who's truck pollutes less if his goes farther with more weight on less fuel then mine? Seems if he had the Overdrive of the newer suburban he would get better MPG then the newer Suburban.

Restored cars you see at the average car show are usualy in top running condition and putting out minimal amount more pollution over a 90's up car of similar size. If the owner has half a brain they understand that the most power can be obtained by proper tuning and that also makes the emissions low. They are also driven seldom so they are a non event on the environment. You take a old car and retrofit a Overdrive transmission and tune it properly they can and will get respectable MPG. I'm saving my pennies for a Remec Overdrive 5speed for that LeMans. Maybe I should Dress it out like Lance Armstrong's 70 GTO (same body)

Miles per gallon is most influenced by 3 variables
Parasitic drag (aerodynamic drag, friction of tires and drivetrain)
weight especially rotating weight
Gear ratio putting the engine at its optimal efficiency RPM to deal with the above two factors.

Now the argument you are going to throw back is a 4cyl will always get better MPG..not always true if it has to work twice as hard to move the weight and overcome the parasitic drag to maintain the same speed. Take a 4,000 lb vehicle and to move it 60mph a V8 may be able to maintain that speed at 1600 RPM using about 60hp it is using its higher torque output to maintain speed at a lower RPM were a 4 cylinder may have to spin 3000 RPM where its making 80hp since it has less available torque output so it has to be geared to spin faster to do the same work. Basically if I put the 4cyl in my 5800lb Suburban it would get nearly the same piss poor MPG since the other two variables were the same.

As for electric cars like your buddies Rolls....Unless you can charge from sun or a place that is not using fossil fuels then they are just "Remote Polluters". Their polluting is "out of site, out of mind" but it is still creating pollution somewhere.

With the problem we are having in the US with supplying electricity, since Nuclear is fought so hard, Hydro electric is also fought and minimal locations to install it and Wind Farms are not going to work everywhere ( you ever been withing a mile of one? You don't want a 400ft windmill near your home it makes non stop noise)and not always dependable as a steady primary power source its more of a supplement to take the load of other power plants I just cant wrap my mind around Electric charged off the grid as being a solution at this time.

sailorbenjamin

I rebuilt a few cars. I have 3 kids now. I can get quite a bit done on a bike with a few minutes spare time in the basement. I could just about get all my tools set up and put away between diaper changes with the old cars.
The bikes lead to physical fitness too. The cars lead to the drive in.

sailorbenjamin

i would post a few pics of the old cars but i dont want to turn this into a car forum.[/QUOTE]

Too late. May as well post them.

cb400bill

I have a similar affection not for old cars but for old motorcycles. I see more parallels between motorcycles and bicycles than I do cars and bicycles. They are usually less expensive and take up less space than cars, too.

After I got back into bicycles I sold off my motorcycles. I guess I can only have one mistress at a time.

sailorbenjamin

So who's truck pollutes less if his goes farther with more weight on less fuel then mine? Seems if he had the Overdrive of the newer suburban he would get better MPG then the newer Suburban.

Efficiency and emissions are two different things. They usually go hand in hand but you can't judge exhaust cleanlines by gas mileage.
Smog pumps were installed to reduce unburned hydrocarbon emissions at the expense of efficiency and complexity (I don't like them any more than anyone else but they were ozone savers). They've since figured out how to reduce unburned fuel by refining things on the intake side of the equasion.

They are also driven seldom so they are a non event on the environment.

Which is why I don't usually bother to try to get the smog pump working again.

You take a old car and retrofit a Overdrive transmission and tune it properly they can and will get respectable MPG. I'm saving my pennies for a Remec Overdrive 5speed for that LeMans.

That sounds like fun. Post some pictures here when it's done.

As for electric cars like your buddies Rolls....Unless you can charge from sun or a place that is not using fossil fuels then they are just "Remote Polluters". Their polluting is "out of site, out of mind" but it is still creating pollution somewhere.

An electric car is NOT a zero emissions vehicle. It is a DISPLACED emissions vehicle.
An electric car is NOT a zero emissions vehicle. It is a DISPLACED emissions vehicle.
That's worth saying twice. People just don't seem to get that

Nuclear is fought so hard.

There hasn't been a new reactor in this country in decades. The ones we have are like worn out Pre EPA emission regulated, pre DOT safety standard carburated station wagons. The technology we have now is way beyond the hardware we have but fear keeps us from upgrading.

embankmentlb

I agree with Grim 100%. Electric cars are not the solution. There are two major problems. The energy to run an electric car must be generated by coal, water, wind or nuclear. All have drawbacks. Second, Think about the number of batteries that would need to be replaced regularly & disposed of properly. Those things contain some very toxic stuff, much more toxic than what is put out by a combustion engine. We would just be in a sense creating longer tail pipes that move the pollution from our roads & driveways to out back yards & drinking water. It is a real problem without a solution.

Eventually economics will take over & automobiles will become so expensive to operate that people will be forced to ride bicycles or use mass transit. People will fight that long & hard. The American way is Apple pie & Chevrolet.

Bike lanes need to become as important as streets. Ahhhhhhh...

luker

We have a contract for construction management of between 5 and 8 new reactors for United Arab Emirates. They have all of the money in the universe, and could put money into any infrastructure that they choose. Do you suppose they know something we don't (or won't acknowledge)?

cycleheimer

Opens up a hold new world!

nivekdodge

I bought this in 2000 and have been playing with it ever since. The idea is to see if I could do a car with disposablle income. I spend 20 dollars a week on it. If I need something for 100 dollars I wait 5 weeks.

https://mysite.verizon.net/vze7zekl/kellerbykuny/

I'd like to do the same thing to an older road bike without scrapping a collectors item . I am trying to figure out what bike I can upgrade with a newer shimano 105 0r ultegra. I think brifters are the coolest thing.

cycleheimer

Ooops! Above post was in response to G.L.'s pic of the bicycles in the living room. My response to that pic was..."Bicycles as art! Opens up a whole new world!" Hey...try sticking 6 vintage sub-compacts in the living room of a starter ranch or apartment! The wife would just love that!

gnome

I like cars as well as bikes. I went and looked at a nice display of Ford Flathead V8s the other day. It included such interesting ones as a couple of coupé utilities and a '39 sloper.

I also have several old cars myself. I have '57 & '64 Vauxhall Victors and an old Citroen. The Citroen is my daily driver but was driven less last year than I biked. My cars are like my bikes; most need work or restoration though.

Vintage bike collecting is cheaper than car collecting and restoration though. It is nice to drive an old car and potter about on it just as it is nice to potter about with old bikes.

dudeona3V

I do find a lot of parallels. I collect both cars and bikes, mostly vintage. The motive behind them is that they're all something that had some "meaning" at some point in my life—whether it's the actual car/bike or the same model. Likewise, I don't have any garage queens. All the cars and all the bikes get enjoyed (except for a Zeus Victoria that's never been on the road and is too small for me anyway). I also enjoy the restoration or preservation as much as I enjoy driving or riding. I'm fortunate in that I have cheap secure storage and I never spend more than I can afford to acquire the collection.

Grim

Exactly and yes you have me on a couple points that I skipped over. The way they test is flawed and I was trying not to get to deep into this since it is over some folks head. The test (here at least) only tests at steady cruise and at Steady cruise a CAT does minimal work if the enigne is running correctly. When it does do something is when the engine goes rich. That would be under acceleration. So yes while my K5 passed steady cruise it did put out more emmisions at the tail pipe under acceleration then it would have if it had the Cats.

On a fuel injected vehicle like my Suburban that pump is there to preheat the CAT. Once it goes closed loop at full operating temp the pump diverts to atmosphere because it would throw off the readings of the O2 sensor.
The point of the pump was in the initial emissions certification they had to hit a emission rating within a time period from a cold start. To do that they actually ran it MUCH richer then it needed so they could get unburnt fuel into the exhaust. The Air Pump created a secondary burn in the exhaust manifold to make extra heat to get the cat up to operating temp faster.

With FI they have to divert that extra air because it will cause a misread of the Oxygen sensor causeing the ECM to think the enigne is running rich causing it to lean to the point it would damage itself. The whole system wasted fuel and I would say in average day to day use it pollutes more then my buddies truck that doesn't go through that asinine start up sequence that dumps twice the fuel needed to the point it misses and runs the idle up to 1800RPM on a stone cold engine. It was actually designed to do that to meet a flawed test requirement

The new style cats heat faster and with improved fuel injection that uses temp sensors, knock snesors ect they can run leaner right off the bat and produce more heat so they do not require the excessive fuel and the secondary burn to meet the requirement so at least they overcame that stupidity.

As for the output. The Cat changes the "pollution" in this case Hydrocarbons to a different Pollution, Nox and CO. Its a balancing act and when you get down to it its still up to debate what one is worse. Just a lot less of the NOX and CO being dumped at any given time so we seem to think the lower Hydrocarbons are the improvement.

Fact is the biggest most effective part of the emissions system is also the most misunderstood. Its the EGR. The EGR allows the engine to lean out the fuel once it achieves a steady cruise. This gets back to displacement not always a bad thing. Once at cruise you do not require the full output potential of the engine. Unless its a non aerodynamic vehicle you often can reduce power need by over 50%. What happens is the EGR opens and reduces the Oxygen then cylinder has. The O2 sensor sees this reading as reading rich and it backs off the amount of fuel it is providing to get back to a Stoic fuel. If a motor is alway running at near full potential it may never do the lean out. So a motor that is too small for the given load may use as much or more fuel then a larger motor that has a higher output.

On a carburated engine the EGR got a bad rap because the Carb leaned up when intake vacuum increased and they EGR was turned to mimic the that lean out with an introduction of exhaust to displace the oxygen to prevent the cylinders from over temping and burning, valves, pistons and melting the Cat. On Carbs shadtree mecahincs would go mess with the carb to provide more fuel for faster acceleration and inadvertantly they would screw up the lean out feature the carb had or they caused a change in Manifold vaccume with a CAM or screwing with the timing. That in turn caused a mismatch with the EGR's setting and made the car run poor till they blocked the EGR. They blammed the EGR when it was somethign they did that causeed the EGR to fail to operate as designed and to this day lots of people think EGR hurts performance when in reality the only time it should be open is steady cruise. When you floor a car the EGR should close to give you full power.

Now they have taken it even farther thanks to things like vairable cams, multi port injection that will not inject fuel in cylinders at all and not spark if the power is not needed loweing fuel use even more but it costs a lot more to make, more points for possible failure and makes it harder to work on.

Man in the grand scheme has lowered a lot of natural occurrences that pumped plenty of "pollution" into the atmosphere. People seem to think that Forest fires are "bad". They were a natural occurrence long before man started limiting them and putting them out. They would burn for years in some cases and burn up large tracts of land like nothing we can even imagine in todays world. On the other hand we concentrate pollution in major cites.

Anyway I just wanted to point out the flip side. Old car is not necessarily a huge polluter if it is maintained and sometimes old tech works just fine As I showed with my early FI not being as eficent as a properly running carberated vehcile of simular size. Personally I'm all for Fuel injection. It most of the time will tell you whats wrong with it. It has less parts that need regular maintenance. For me to keep that old K5 running cleaned required a lot of maintenance that a Fuel injected vehicle doesn't require. A carburetor is a temperamental device and they ran a little rich so that they could deal with elevation changes without leaning out the motor to the point of damage.

Fuel injection is always optimizing for elevation and has less wear out parts. The amout of polution a cat has to deal with is less as a result. Unfortunately when something does fail it is more expensive then then a $25 mechanical fuel pump or a $18 carburetor rebuild kit and a few hours of work. Its going to be $100 injector or a $200 fuel pump or god forbid a $500 ECU.

screaminDOHC

I agree, bikes *can* be a fun alternative. I don't have the disposable income for the highend road bikes that some of you guys have unfortunately. I've got an 05 Trek 1000 SL, 85 Schwinn LeTour, late 80's SS Panasonic beater, and a mid 80's campy/suntour/durace (interesting mix of components) Cilo....and this, 1965 MB MGB. It's a bit more expensive of a hobby, most definately.