mattgrimes

I don't see why not, but I just bought a pair of old campagnolo record hubs to start up a wheel set and have a wheelset with 2.0mm DT swiss spokes.

Will they fit?

thanks

JohnDThompson 

Sure. 2mm is 14ga (AWG); no problem.

repechage

Yes BUT...DT spoke bend dimensions have migrated. True Old stock, no problem. Some time ago they added length between the spoke head and the bend, not good for old hubs, good for new thicker flanged stuff, washers were even suggested for the vintage hub owners. They then kind of went back a bit, not all the way but, better than before, good I think for C Record stuff. Caused me to go to Sapim spokes. No one seemed to know what they had in inventory, although DT for a while made mention of it on their web site on how to read the labels of the spoke packages to tell, color coded labels I think... I don't like washers, broken spokes, loose looking spokes.

I think Wheelsmith also still sells spokes.

mattgrimes

cool thanks a lot

JohnDThompson 

You may be right, but it's news to me. For what it's worth, here's a wheel I built a couple weeks ago on an 80s vintage Tipo hub using new (2008 production) DT spokes:



And here's a wheel I built about 25 years ago on a then-current Record hub using then-current DT spokes:

Panthers007

I have the exact same hubs and spokes - from 1983. I have a 1999 Centaur hubset that is the same flange thickness as the Records (In 1999 Centaur hubs were the same as the Records - they just changed the name before they re-tooled). Built with modern Wheelsmith spokes. No problems there. The spokes are DB - 2.0 - 1.77 (according to my digital caliper). Same as the DT DB's. So, if in doubt, go Wheelsmith. If DT has indeed been monkeying with their bend.

Mike Mills

Was what I read scuttlebutt and hearsay with no basis in truth or did I just learn something factual? I know I am now worried about the spokes I was going to buy.

I was going to order DT spokes to build up a wheel set using Nuovo Record hubs. Have the spoke dimensions really changed since I built may last wheel (abbout 100 years ago)?

Washers don't seem like they would really work or would support the head differently than intended.

I do have several NOS spokes from DT and others. I can measure them. Where do I go to check these dimensions against current production prior to purchase?

Panthers007

I'll pull a spoke from my 1983 DT/Campy Record and compare it with one from today...

And the verdict is:

No Difference whatsoever re: bend (angle and length).

steve-d

Peter White addressed this on his wheel build site. I don't vouch for it, I'm just a reporter. Then again, he builds wheels for a living.


https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm

Panthers007

Peter White is also very mad at DT for several reasons. Not the least of which is DT demands shops/builders who do wheels professionally to attend a course ($$$) on building wheels "The DT Way!" And to use only DT tools. He refused. DT wouldn't sell him spokes. So he switched to Wheelsmith for spokes.

I have just double checked, with a magnifying glass & digital caliper, a DT spoke from 1982-3 and one from a few months ago (both from Harris Cyclery). They are identical. Maybe the ones from a few months ago are some pre-2000 stock Harris had in the cellar?

I'd say the lesson in this isn't that Peter is nuts or full of it. I'd say the lesson here is that DT has gone Nazi-birdhouse. Knowing what I know about DT - both Peter White's story and the chatter going around regards problems with DT spokes - I won't willingly give DT any more of my money. I'm going Wheelsmith, too. When a dog piddles on the rug, you don't give it a doggie-treat.

cyclotoine

Thanks, very informative. Seems there is no need to worry about it anymore, but wheelsmith are preferred. I have never personally seen a DT head pop off but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Thankfully I am pretty sure I have never encountered the 2000 super long bend spokes. Seems the difference today is negligable.

Panthers007

Shameless Plug: I have a set of Peter White's wheels. They are perfect in all respects. Never go out of true. And he knows how to scour the countryside for old stock goodies like Campagnolo hubs. I highly recommend them to anyone needing precision wheels for their favorite steed.

Thanks, Peter. Nice job!

Mike Mills

Maybe that's what I should do, just send the hubs to Peter White and have him build them up. After reading his web site earlier today, he certainly seems to know what he's talking about.

Then again, if I do it that way, I lose out on the fun and challenge of building the wheels. I might even have fun finding and re-reading my first edition of Jobst Brandt's The Bicycle Wheel (is there more than one edition?).

iab

I made a set of wheels from some NOS Gran Sport 3-piece hubs, probably from the mid to late 50s. I used DT 14/15 (2.0/1.8) db spokes. I wanted to use Alpina, but it was too much of a hassle to get the sizes I wanted.

The threaded ends would not pass though 95% of the holes, maybe 3-4 of the 72 spokes did. I had to thread them through. As soon as the threaded section was through, the rest of the spoke was fine. Either the tolerances were very high or the holes were designed for 15/16 spokes.

John E

I just laced Capo #2's 1960 Campagnolo Record high-flangers with 2.0/1.8/2.0 DT spokes. It was a very tight fit in the 9 drive side torque spoke holes, perhaps due to stress-related elongation, but I did manage to get everything threaded and laced properly.

Antipodes

I had a similar situation when I built a new set of wheels for my girlfriend's PX10. I used Mavic Open Sport rims on Campy Tipo hubs with DT Swiss "standard" spokes. They were a tight fit, but I got them all through with a little persuasion (either by giving them a light tap or by actually threading them through the holes).