Intersting stuff - thanks for the pic of the lugs - Mine doesn't have those holes in the lugs in that picture, but it does have those identical holes in the BB lugs. Not sue what that means. How about the weight of these things? or the thickness/tolerance of the tubes?

I bought a very nice Magsitroni Senior Crankset and BB (well, nicely worn!) from a super nice guy in Sondrio Italy via ebay today. He also had a couple of Panto'd Magistroni senior headsets, unfornunately I don't want the pantography, but he has two, one with "Wilier Magistroni" and one with "Rossignoli Magistroni"...and he said he would look for one for me without the Panto - which was very nice.

Also unfortunate, that the Crankset is Magistroni with Simplex chainrings, would have been nice to be 100%, but who's counting?...

As always, keep the fedback coming, and I'll coninue on my end. I wish the guy in california tht I bought the frame from had some idea of it's origins...

They sold the Magistroni cranks with no chainrings back in olden times, and you put the lighter ALLOY chainrings of your choice on them, so Simplex rings on those cranks could have been "as sold". At least it's not something that should lose you points in an imaginary Concours competition.

And those Simplex rings were the ring of choice for racer types - among the best available. That's why there were adaptors to fit them to different cranks.

good to know - No worries on the concours thing - you've seen the bike pics, lol...

Ok - I stand waaay corrected on the seatpost diameter - I just tried to insert a Nuovo Record 27.2mm seat post, and there wouldn't be any way without prying it open to get it in - It's more like 26mm diameter, which I suppose matches the age, but not sure if it helps the cause much...

well, a 26.2 is the size used by the classic Cinelli...but that's because of the brazed-in sleeve for the classic Cinelli seat cluster (which you don't have). I'm still waiting to hear somebody from the CR list pipe up...nothing yet, huh?

nothing yet...Honestly, not expecting a huge amount of excitement here...It's hard to get excited about someone else's project for sure...regardless, I move forward. Working on not finding the perfect components, but good period correct stuff i can pickup inexpensively...So I'm looking for a seatpost - What were the desirable seat posts on the market in Italy around 1960? I'm assuming a few things about this bike - that it is roughy 1957-1962, that it was built for a purpose, and that puropse maybe was long distance riding/racing, given the pump braze ons and the braze ons leading me to believe it originally hard bar end shifters, which would have been important in climbing at the time...but also fairly advanced for the day too, no? One probably wouldnt have gone with bar ends back then unless they needed it. It's just not practical for daily use, and the downtube type shifters would have functioned better and made more sense for a normal person. Also, the frame is big, so I'm leaning toward at least the north of Italy, since people there tend to be taller. (making serious assumptions here - reaching for sure...)

Anyway - The bike sits, waiting for it's bottom bracket and cranks. I'm thinking about Campagnolo Gran sport three piece hubs - 36 and 36 (40 and 36 bugs me for some reason) - Anything else you might suggest to look for that would have been a high-end hub back then (and still good today) and approriate for an Italian?

One more thing - I need a seat binder bolt - what were the typical binder bolts like in that period on these bikes? Any links to photos?

I'm just about to throw this money pit of a frame out the window - There is a tap broken off in the right rear Dropout - flush - so there is practiacally no way to get the rusty thing out. arg.

you mean in the wheel adjuster hole? I wouldn't really worry about that.

I thought about that too but it doesn't resemble any Bottecchia I've ever seen. Can't say about Olmo.

Any chance it's 26.8mm? That would fit Falck tubing.

You can send that money pit straight over here for disposal

-Kurt

yep - could it be 26.8? mmaaaayybee....it's hard to tell the hole is a little out of round - I would put it 26.2/26.4mm seat tube.

Someone mentioned that the cinelli seat tubes were this diamter because there is a brazed in sleeve? would anyone have a picture of that?

Kurt - yes, for the right price, it can go to the "kurt's steel bike recycling fascility" lol...

And - what is Falck tubing? Where was it used? When? and by whom?

Thanks all...so now with my new found lovely flush broken off tap in the drive drop - I'm looking for those little spacers that one uses on a bike that doesn't have dropout bolts- anyone know where to get them? I saw a campy pair sell on ebay a few weeks back for around 60 dollars or so, but that's sooooo rediculous - there has to be another way.

I too recommend bar keepers friend for polishing parts. It works nicely. A day of soaking and a light scrubbing with a green dish pad really brings out the shine in things.

Falck (sometimes spelled Falk) was an Italian industrial steel tubing manufacturer who also made bicycle tubing. They were commonly found on higher end (but not super high-end semi-custom) mass produced Italian bikes in the 60's. There is not a lot of information out there on them. I'm not sure about the "who" but I would guess names like Atala, Bottecchia, Frejus, Legnano, Olmo, Torpado, etc. and probably NOT brands like Cinelli, De Rosa, Masi, and the like.

Kommisar: you might be surprised at how many of the "big names" used Falck tubing, but primarily as a "mixer" as in the occasional tube to make up a set or very typically for stays and steerer...even though there'd be a Columbus decal on the frame. Falck got absorbed into the giant Mannesmann tubing behemoth, AFAIK. It's rare to see a Falck tubing decal (indicating an entire Falck tubeset) but I've seen a handful.
As to the Cinelli sleeve, you can't really see it cause it's so cleanly done, but you get an idea from this shot of the extra thickness at the top of the seat lug...it's certainly something a caliper would show, and it's done for the classic fastback cluster, it wouldn't be required to have the extra metal there with regular side-brazed stay caps. (Pic is from the CR main site> Italy>Cinelli)
check loosescrews.com for those DO thingies, they have them cheap

Well - looks like I need to get out the calipers- but...my seat cluster doesn't look like the cinelli seat cluster in the pic, and so probably doesn't have the brazed in sleeve - but - for good measure- I'll take a look with my calipers and post it on the blog - with pics showing the out of round seat cluster measurments too,,,,


Hey - so I went and typed in "do thingies" in loose screw, and couldn't find one. What is the name by which one should search - browsing around didn't help much either...

Thanks again for all the input...

PS- I'm almost ready to shoot the forks with primer! The rust had eaten them pretty bad - but they are straight ( I thnk ) and with a little filler, the smaller crumbly caverns will smooth out and not be noticable...Frame is next...

does anyone know where to look for a Magistroni Headset? I need one for the mystery bike...

The Magistroni cranks came last night - I will post them on the blog soon...
Now looking for Universal Brake Levers, the headset, pedals, saddle (ideale?), seat post and Steel Cinelli bars - type 64 maybe...

oh - and if you need a reference for the mystery bike - you can see it here (not that I havent pointed to it much in the course of this thread)

https://askrobdaily.blogspot.com

I've been looking for a magistroni Headset - still havn't found one, so in the meantime, I went to a local shop and bought a 1" tange. The cups are very slightly too large for the head tube - by the look of it - the are only off by maybe 0.5 mm or less. Is that normal? Seems to me that they should fit into the tube, and then be tight, but not need to stretch the jug in order to fit in the first place...

Would an old italian headset from the period be a different size?

New pics and geometry of the mystery bike:

https://askrobdaily.blogspot.com/

Head Tube: 19.5cm tall
Top Tube: 58.5cm center to center
Down Tube: 64cm center to center
Seat Tube: 59cm center to center
Chain Stay: 45cm center to center
Seat Stay: 58.5cm center to center
From center of the BB to the top of the top tube in the straight line up is 58cm.

Still trying to figure out what it is...

thanks for the input..