i have an early 70's raleigh.
it has been painted over, so no decals are visible.
it had suntour parts and weinmann center-pull brakes, as well as a cottered crank.
the serial number is 2977289, no letters.
i have searched up and down to find information about the year of production as well as the factory where this bike was produced, but i can't find anything about it.
any help would be much appreciated.
thanks!

Pictures would still be helpful. Focus on the head badge and components - if those are original to the bike then some information can be teased from that. One thing you may try is looking for a stamp on the fork where it rests inside the head tube, but this isn't on all bikes and requires some disassembly.

The serial number stamped on the dropout doesn't help much. Is there one on the bottom bracket? Otherwise, pics are required for ID-ing.

Neal

that is the serial number stamped into the bottom bracket.
here's a picture...

I'll guess an early 70s Grand Prix based on wrap-over seat stay, stamped rear dropouts, cottered cranks and chrome fork. Just a guess.

Neal

Yep, 1970-1976 Grand Prix. Looks a whole lot like mine. Someone took off the big chain wheel and the front derailer and possibly replaced the rear. To get a better date you'd need some more specifics on the original components.

Of course you can compare yours to the catalogue:

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...rand-prix.html

Are you sure the first digit in the serial number isn't a "Z" ?

i looked again and it definitely looks like a 2.
this is my dad's old bike that he did a lot of work to over the years and now i'm rebuilding it to an extent. (single speed)
does yours have the 26 tpi threading?
i read that most with cottered cranks do, but the fender eyelets are above the dropouts, not behind.
i'm new to this stuff, so i really appreciate your help.
some people i have talked to around here have been less than helpful to say the least.
thanks again!!!

Look on the rear of the seat post - near the top. Might have something stamped there as well.

ps - Make sure that stem is in at least 3" if you're going to ride it. If that one has the original stem, it's a calamity waiting to happen.

nothing on the back of the seat post.
the stem has a logo that looks like a cb stamped into it.
is this the original?

here's a pic of the stem.
thanks again!

That's GB: Gerry Burgess. Yes, likely the original English-made stem. Standard equipment on many early 70s Raleigh road bikes.

Neal

i was really delving into this to try to find out if i had one of the bikes with the raleigh threading, without having to take the bike apart to see.
i heard that measuring the bottom bracket is a good way to tell. is this true?

Measure the width of the bottom bracket shell. If it's > 70 mm, it's Raleigh threaded, most likely.

thanks. wish me luck.
if it turns out that it is raleigh threaded, what is your experience with changing cranksets?

26 TPI BBs are rare now, but I think it's not so hard to find a spindle -- if it's the cups, well . . .

If the BB housing is 70-71 mm wide, you could have it retapped Italian (their standard is 70 mm wide housing, and the threads are larger pitch dia. than English), but make sure that there's enough material in the BB for that. Then you could get a reasonably-priced IRD cartridge-bearing BB (made in lots of spindle widths) and a pair of their Italian cups, and you'd be in business.

Disclaimer: I haven't done this, but it works as a Gedankenversuch.

tell me more about this spindle situation, if you don't mind.
like i said, i'm new to this, so any info would be helpful.
i have read the shledon brown stuff, but it's still a little over my head.
thanks!

update:
looks like i lucked out.
i measured the bottom bracket shell and it appears to be 68 or 69 mm. def not 71 or 76
from what i understand, this implies english threading. am i correct?
thanks...

also, if i wanted to change brakes, what kind can i use?

You might find a cartridge bottom bracket that will work with your threading. I have never personally done this but you can find someone else on this site that has more expertise with this easily. I switched my Grand Prix over to square-taper by swapping out the spindle only. The hardest part of this is finding a spindle that will give you the correct chain line. Check on Sheldon Brown's site to find how to measure this and estimate which new spindle you can use. Any of the Japanese spindles should fit into your bottom bracket, it's just a matter of finding which one puts your cranks the right distance out from the frame. I ended up using a 3P spindle, but something just a hair longer would be better. You might find one of these on eBay or in an odd corner of the internet, but I dug through the parts bin of my local co-op until I found a spindle that I was satasfied with. You will of course need a new crank set as well, but these can usually be found on eBay, especially if you're not too picky.

As for brakes, I found a pair of Weinnman center-pulls at my co-op. I like center-pulls much more than side-pulls, especially on vintage bikes, but the side-pulls will also work with this frame. There are possibly going to be some issues with reach, especially in the back, but you can measure the distance from the brake bolt to the rim of your tire to figure out how long your brakes need to be. You might take the opportunity, if you're going to switch out the brakes anyways, to add an extra 4 mm of reach so you can swith to 700c wheels in the future.

If your BB is 68 mm wide (or even 69), that's a standard width, and so any spindle/crank combination that's made for a standard bike will work fine. Unless you're doing internal gear hub, or singlespeed/fixed gear, where chainline is more critical, you can get close enough if your spindle and crank put the middle of your chainwheels (1, 2 or 3) at approximately the middle of your cogset in the rear. If you have a specific crank, then you can look up (or your LBS can) what spindle length and taper-end-standard (ISO, JIS, Campagnolo, etc.) the crank should ideally work with. How a square taper crank actually fits on a given spindle is, unfortunately, somewhat of a black art -- manufacturing tolerances, whether the sockets in aluminum crank are worn a bit, how tight one torques (or has torqued) the crank bolts are all involved. But that's a general problem, not one that is particular to your Raleigh.

Before you do (or at least buy) anything, do check that the threading is indeed 24 TPI rather than 26. If you're lucky, the cups on the existing BB may be marked with the threading -- some models are "marked" by the presence (including the non-presence!) of a certain number of rings incised into them. Lacking that: if you don't have an English thread (1.370 x 24 TPI) cup to try out, borrow one. If you can thread it all the way in, then you're all set, except for the spending part.

I took a look at the serial number on my Grand Prix earlier today and it is 2920000. It, like I'm pretty sure yours is, was made by Gazelle in the Netherlands. The good news is that they used the standard bottom bracket shells. I avoided the threading issue by re-using the cups and bearings on mine, but they should be English threading. If you have a LBS or co-op you like, get them to help you order the parts and they'll have an English-threaded cup for you to try out, like Charles mentioned above.

you guys are my new superheros.
thanks a bunch! i'll post pics, as i go along with the overhaul/rebuild...

Some of you guys say that the OPs bike is a Raleigh Grand Prix.

I'm curious, what is the difference between a Grand Prix and a Super Grand Prix?

My brother gave me a Super GP frame back in 2003 which I powder coated and hung some more modern components off of it.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ix+super+grand

This Super GP is Canadian made with a serial number of RE8 03852, quite a differant format than what some have posted here. Mine doesn't have the chromed fork either and it orginally had Suntour components.

I just picked up a late 70s or early 80s Super Grand Prix, the second one I've had, and a big difference are components: alloy 700c wheels, SunTour bar-end shifters, Raleigh-badged SunTour VGT mechs. The frame is hi-ten steel as was the GP, but those lighter components and slightly smaller wheels would make quite a difference, I'd think.

Neal

Super GP and GP were the same frame for all intents and purposes.