Hooked vs. Lipped?
 

My only experience with hooked rims and folding tires involves the Mavic Module E and E2. There is no question that these rims have hooks and would be able to accomodate the bead on a folding tire. But I now have a pair of wheels with Wolber 58 rims and am at the point of choosing a tire for them. The 58s have a much more subtle lip rather than a prominent hook on the inside surface of the rim to accomodate the bead.

So my question is, What are the limits of this lip? Will it handle a folding tire? What tire pressures will it handle? Will it handle higher pressures but require a wire bead rather than a folding bead?

Does anyone have experience with this Wolber 58 (formerly SuperChampion 58) and can offer advice?

thanks,

kranz

I have no experience with that particular rim. But, in my experience, even a subtle lip does a good job of holding a bead. Maybe I have not pushed the experiment as far as it could go, but I actually think that such a lip holds a tire as well as a more modern hook.

jim

I've never had a problem, no matter how much pressure I pump into the tires. I've always used wire-beaded tires.

Folding tires with their kevlar beads are less flexible than steel wire, therefore will actually stay better seated and have less of a chance to work off a rim at pressure.

A pic of the Wolber rim cross section would assist in determining if they are safe for any high pressure tire.

I have Rigida 1622s which are essentially the same as the Model 58 with what I think Frank Berto called bulged rim walls. I have wire beaded tires on them and they easily handle 110+ psi with no problems. I haven't tried folding bead tires but I certainly like to know how well that works.

Actually, I go just the opposite. I use Kevlar folding tires on hooked bead rims and, for 27" rims with that subtle buldge that's not a true hook, I use wire steel, non-folding tires. There was a significant thread on this in C&V about a year ago, maybe a little longer. One of the BF member regulars on C&V had a blowout due to a kevlar tire coming off the buldge bead. It might have been Cuda2K, but I'm not sure. Others shared their experience. Ever since I read that thread I stopped using Kevlar tires on rims that don't have a true hook bead.

+1 I just get wire bead tires for all the bikes except the modern ones. A lot of the "hooked" rims I am seeing are more like a subtle bulge. After having a blow out on an unhooked rim, I don't take chances with the slightly hooked rims either.

My 2 cents: some folding tires on some rims are simply a major pain to put on. Mainly Michelins.
Once on, though, I like 'em.

I replaced the Araya rims on my 73 Nishiki that had no lip with some later ones that did. I use wire bead tires and can run considerably higher pressures (85-90) with no fear of blowing the tire off the rim.

I'm not sure I believe that.

If this was the wire-bead 27" IRC Roadwinners on Cuda2K's Schwinn Passage (Araya rims, if I recall correctly), it was due to a bend in the wire bead.

He traded me those tires when I inquired about them, and the offending tire of the two did pop off my hooked-bead Mavics. I found the spot where the wire was kinked, bent it straight again, problem went away.

-Kurt

I should clarify my first post.
I'm referring to kevlar's greater tensile strength than steel. When used as a tire bead, once it takes its shape (diameter), it'll keep its shape and not stretch and blow off a rim as a steel bead would at greater pressure. At the time, most all the 27" narrow tires maxed out at 95 psi when constructed with a steel wire bead. With exception to an IRC tire rated at 100 psi. (But that was a crappy performing tire!)
Kevlar beaded tires were rated up to 110-120 psi. It could withstand the increase because it didn't deform.

Of course, I'm using these on hooked rims.

All I have is anecdotal evidence to submit: I have dealt with a handful of non-hooked rims that would blow folding-bead tires off and not blow steel-bead tires off.

jim

Wasn't the steel-bead Michelin Elan rated for 100?

-Kurt

I can't recall if that was available 30 years ago. But I do recall it was slim pickings if you wanted a high performing 27x1 tire. The Japanese-made Specialized tires were the standard. I believe Avocet offered some very competitive models. For whatever reason back then, other brands weren't considered. (young and pig-headed I guess) ;)
Those of us who chose clinchers rolled on Specialized Turbo/S. And I also ran the wire bead version, the Ultralight, in 27".

When I purchased my Bottecchia in 1974 it came with Clement 27x1 1/4 tires rated at 100-psi mounted on straight sided Fiamme Yellow Label clincher rims. They were beautiful tires with just a hint of tread and that translucent gum colored sidewall that showed the cord underneath. When they wore out I never found any 27" tires that nice to replace them. I have no idea how they got that to work.

It was the first-ever tire made for hooked-bead rims. I have one nearly NOS (with dryrot) sitting about - I'll take a look at it.

-Kurt

Was the Elan 27X1 1/4" and the Elite 27X1 1/8", or was it the other way around? Anyway, I ran the skinny ones on my "lipped" Super Champions at over 100lbs for years with no problems other than lots of punctures.

Whatever it is, mine is an equivalent to 27x1" in physical size. I believe it is marked 27x1-1/4" nevertheless.

-Kurt