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I thought my Hi-E rims were also epoxied at the lap joint, not just riveted. There was some kinda spooge evident there, though maybe just accumulated grime? But my guess was epoxy.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...010c661dda.jpg I don't have the wheels anymore, they went with my Exxon Graftek bike that I sold. It also had Hi-E pedals, and the front wheel has aluminum spokes that were threaded on both ends. The spokes went from one side of the rim, through the hub with a dog-leg bend, and on to the other side of the rim. So this 36-hole rim only needed 18 spokes. (He called those "Siamese" spokes, before that term came to be thought of as offensive when used to mean "conjoined".) Hi-E Superlight timetrial hub of course, with aluminum-shaft skewer. Man that was a light wheel. I never rode on it, too scary at my, um, ample weight. Rear rim was 36 hole too, but with 12 spokes left and 24 spokes right. Normal steel J-bend spokes. Anyone ever used the spot-facer for dropouts, to make the slow-release skewers safer? I have the facing tool and have used it only once. Sort of makes "lawyer lips" in any front dropout. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7b4248134.jpg I also have a scan of the spot-facer instructions, which I can upload if anyone needs it, but it's all greasy-grimy, not a clean scan. I haven't read this whole thread so apologies if it's been covered already. |
Is there any advantage to riveted parts or is it just because the designer wanted to be unique?
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Very interesting thanks for sharing:thumb:
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Stripped threads on a Normandy Lux (destroyed with pride!)
Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
(Post 22749222)
John,
Are you certain you stripped the hub threads for mounting your freewheel? My guess is that the pawls failed in your freewheel instead. Do you remember which brand freewheel? My guess is that it would have been a Regina or Atom. Hi Bob and Folks-- The problem was indeed stripped alloy threads on the stock Normandy Lux rear hub. The rear cluster didn't have a brand name that I remember. Consistent with that is how the 1973 Raleigh catalog that I see on-line doesn't specify the maker of the 14-24 rear cluster supplied stock on the Competition model. Indeed, I continued to use the same (working) cluster on the Hi-E wheel, at least as I recall, until I replaced it with a 14-18 that I bought second-hand from another kid at snotty boarding school. (It was nice and flat in Southeastern Massachusetts where I grew up!) Those were the days! I was lucky to discover road-racing bikes and sew-up tires as early as I did. Hi-end bikes are SO much more common now -- it's quite amazing how things have changed for cycling technology and performance, at least in small-town USA since the early 1970s. I had sew-up tires when all my hometown rat-pack friends had Schwinn Varsities. My gosh almighty, what a step up was the modest Raleigh Competition -- compared to that Iron Dog beast Schwinn Varsity! I'm sure there are a few others here who can relate to this nostalgia.... ;-) Cheers-- --JWB. PS: I've learned that I can't post pictures here until I make eight more postings. My Hi-Lo wheel is unusual but clearly not super-rare. If anyone is especially interested to see pictures, I'll generate some blather or something, and get pictures posted. It was fun riding such an unusual wheel -- and it worked for me!! |
Hub bodies and parts
Anyone know where I can get some spare parts?
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Originally Posted by Warrenmee
(Post 23218289)
Anyone know where I can get some spare parts?
hazetguy bought out his old stock. He may still have some. |
Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22749627)
Is there any advantage to riveted parts or is it just because the designer wanted to be unique?
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Originally Posted by grant40
(Post 22749627)
Is there any advantage to riveted parts or is it just because the designer wanted to be unique?
The rims were likely riveted to be able to use sheet stock instead of investing in an extrusion die like most rim manufacturers. Another factor might be that Harlan Meyer came from the aerospace world, and may have been more familiar with riveting as a construction method. It's worth checking out the Classic Rendezvous page on Hi-E to get a look at the full range of Hi-E products. edit: wow... I forgot how old this thread is! Steve in Peoria |
Originally Posted by curbtender
(Post 23218315)
https://www.bikeforums.net/members/hazetguy-20876.html
hazetguy bought out his old stock. He may still have some. 99.9% of what i bought has been moved on to other homes. see post #50 in this thread. |
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Originally Posted by repechage
(Post 8453893)
Phil was around in 1971 for sure.
Hi-E was the first to use needle bearings in a front hub, the small diameter early units promoted that, the heavy duty larger barrel diameter versions might have been different. |
Dumb question - a friend who was in the middle of all of this kind of development told me about a wheel design that used thin piano wire and tension bales like a stringed instrument for spokes. Was that a different Harlan design or something else?
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Restoring Cosmo #11
Originally Posted by hazetguy
(Post 23218472)
yes, i bought a lot of stuff from MOMBAT.
99.9% of what i bought has been moved on to other homes. see post #50 in this thread. |
Originally Posted by 3xLittle500
(Post 23366213)
Hi, new poster here. I raced starting in the early 70s in Indianapolis and Hi-e products were quite well known. I recently picked up Cosmopolitan #11 from the original owner in pretty bad shape, but I’m hoping to resurrect it. It had been painted orange, but much of that paint is flaking away. If I were to have it repainted, I would lose/ need to replace the original stickers. Not sure whether perhaps to strip it and leave bare aluminum, etc. Before I tear into the parts, I’d like to know what is truly “unobtainium” and what stuff might still be out there. Any contact is appreciated.
Parts have really dwindled and dispersed in the past decade. The CR list (classic rendezvous / google group) will probably trigger leads. Rims, hubs, skewers and pedals occasionally are found on eBay. |
Thank you for the reply. It is quite rough right now, and I need to patiently free nuts, bolts, and cotters that haven’t moved in half a century. Oozing character is apt. I actually rode on training rides with the original owner of this bike (1971 US National Road Champion Steve Dayton). It creaked like crazy due to the riveted frame, and he had the shift levers mounted where? Down tube? No. Bar ends? Nope. Stem? Strike three. Seat tube is the correct answer due to oversized down tube and weight savings, and it wasn’t as bad as it sounds. Once I have posted enough, I can upload some pix.
Originally Posted by chain_whipped
(Post 23366263)
Neat history. As for restoration vs. preservation, these bikes are now extraordinary rare. As the saying 'they're only original once' so in this case, I would lean towards preservation. Oozes character and more interesting. If you need decals, reach out to Gus Salmon (Winter Park, FL).
Parts have really dwindled and dispersed in the past decade. The CR list (classic rendezvous / google group) will probably trigger leads. Rims, hubs, skewers and pedals occasionally are found on eBay. |
Originally Posted by Kontact
(Post 23305481)
Dumb question - a friend who was in the middle of all of this kind of development told me about a wheel design that used thin piano wire and tension bales like a stringed instrument for spokes. Was that a different Harlan design or something else?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...30206ac6b6.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...15c86d5122.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d9f09bc04a.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9be430f0b.jpg The hi-e system wheel that I have uses |
Could be what the friend was talking about. McMaster Carr has piano wire up to .162", which is bigger than those spokes. I forgot how weird those wheels were
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http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/d.hi-...kes/index.html
This has pictures of the spokes where a different threading system was used plus commentary. I think my example with the spokes themselves being threaded is a prototype or later modification. |
Originally Posted by 3dvvitch
(Post 23368985)
Something else, presumably.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...15c86d5122.jpg The hi-e system wheel that I have uses Their marketing literature did mention them (circa 1992).... https://live.staticflickr.com/5349/7...046e53_c_d.jpg It mentions a large weight savings, compared to conventional spokes. It's not clear exactly how the weight is saved. Are the spokes made of aluminum?? Steve in Peoria (a fan of some Hi-E products, but not all of them) |
Originally Posted by 3dvvitch
(Post 23368985)
Something else, presumably.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...30206ac6b6.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...15c86d5122.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d9f09bc04a.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9be430f0b.jpg The hi-e system wheel that I have uses Ironic and seems all wrong but today I have a modern US made White Industries Mi5 hubs (large diam flanged) that are 40 hole, though laced only 20 spoke, 2 cross, tied and soldered to all carbon plastic deep rims for tubular. Fast, super reliable strong and freakishly lightweight. |
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 23369018)
It mentions a large weight savings, compared to conventional spokes. It's not clear exactly how the weight is saved. Are the spokes made of aluminum? "Meyer bought 1.27 mm (0.050 inch) wire, of a sort suitable for spokes. He formed threads on the outside of brass(?) tubing, which he slid on and then silver-brazed to the wire. He formed heads by... doing away with the head entirely, and replacing each pair of spokes (and heads!) with one long spoke, run rim-to-hub-to-rim. Half of a Hi-E spoke (equivalent to a single conventional spoke) is 3.65 g for 311 mm equivalent, which would make a 260 mm equivalent about 3.05 g. In comparison, Sapim lists their Super Spoke as 3.61 g for 260 mm, or about 18% heavier than a Hi-E spoke." But that description applies to a slightly different version (maybe the standard version) where the spoke thread section are a separate piece attached to the spoke wire (see below). I'll update once I get calipers on the spokes on my version of the wheel and weigh it. I'm curious now to see if my version is any lighter than normal. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e5d0314a22.jpg |
Originally Posted by 3dvvitch
(Post 23369029)
That pardo website I linked to (which may or may not actually work very well) says the following:
"Meyer bought 1.27 mm (0.050 inch) wire, of a sort suitable for spokes. He formed threads on the outside of brass(?) tubing, which he slid on and then silver-brazed to the wire. He formed heads by... doing away with the head entirely, and replacing each pair of spokes (and heads!) with one long spoke, run rim-to-hub-to-rim. Half of a Hi-E spoke (equivalent to a single conventional spoke) is 3.65 g for 311 mm equivalent, which would make a 260 mm equivalent about 3.05 g. In comparison, Sapim lists their Super Spoke as 3.61 g for 260 mm, or about 18% heavier than a Hi-E spoke." But that description applies to a slightly different version (maybe the standard version) where the spoke thread section are a separate piece attached to the spoke wire (see below). I'll update once I get calipers on the spokes on my version of the wheel and weigh it. I'm curious now to see if my version is any lighter than normal. I didn't see a mention of "aluminum", so I'm guessing the diameter is smaller? Steve in Peoria |
Originally Posted by steelbikeguy
(Post 23369071)
so why is the Siamese spoke lighter?
I didn't see a mention of "aluminum", so I'm guessing the diameter is smaller? Steve in Peoria
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c10a19191.jpg |
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