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-   -   Hi-E (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/516050-hi-e.html)

steelbikeguy 11-03-24 01:11 PM

Jim Cunningham displayed a Graftek with a Cool Gear saddle on it at the 2018 CR gathering.
Neat bike with all sorts of period correct weight weenie bits!

https://live.staticflickr.com/890/41...7c751c_b_d.jpg

Steve in Peoria (where I still wear my old Cool Gear jersey now and then)

chain_whipped 11-03-24 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by 3dvvitch (Post 23369257)
I think it makes sense to market questionably lightweight products as special racing equipment, rather than as regular consumer goods. It's all fun stuff from an engineering standpoint, but God, the liability...

I read somewhere that Charlie Cunningham, of early mtb fame, liked hi-e components because he preferred parts to break rather than be "too heavy," which is an interesting philosophy at least!

We need some quotes and philosophy of Colin Chapman.
"Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy".
"You won't catch me driving a race car that I have built".

3xLittle500 11-03-24 06:27 PM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61ca6e744.jpeg
Some “before” shots of my Cosmopolitan restoration. I’m optimistic, and will post “after” pix when after is here.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61f6a8b71.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d038eb8f.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11b818f20.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...746390116.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...429f58fef.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f970c9630.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...690e14272.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2700b1641.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b27f53edd.jpeg

steelbikeguy 11-03-24 07:40 PM

I gotta say.... Harlan's design for the headset seems fairly reasonable. I'm assuming that the bearings can handle a thrust load.
The bottom bracket and crankset, though.... it's hard to imagine that a rollpin is appropriate for transmitting the torque from left crank to right.

Not sure what to say about the frame. Any comments on how stiff it feels, or whether it is cracking?

Steve in Peoria

3xLittle500 11-03-24 10:38 PM

I still haven’t ridden this bike, but I can tell you there are 2 perpendicular rollpins on each side of the steel hollow axle, outboard of the bearings. This bike was ridden hard by a top rider for at least 2 seasons, so that might not be an issue. I do recall that it creaked when he stood on it, though this is almost certainly the frame and not the bb. Others have noticed this creaking (not cracking) with different serial # Cosmos. Did you notice below the cartridge bearings in the head tube there are 4 permanent cable guides built in? Even with bar end shifters, not sure why the 4th guide. Lots more out of the box engineering going on with this bike that I’m sure will be discussed.

repechage 11-04-24 07:26 AM

That image set is the most complete review of the Cosmopolitan I have seen yet. Appears the crank spindle is oversized too. Years ahead

steelbikeguy 11-04-24 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by 3xLittle500 (Post 23386185)
I still haven’t ridden this bike, but I can tell you there are 2 perpendicular rollpins on each side of the steel hollow axle, outboard of the bearings.

I assume that the second rollpin is oriented at 90 degrees to the one that is visible? It must enter from the side opposite the crank arm then. I wonder how you get that rollpin out?


Originally Posted by 3xLittle500 (Post 23386185)
This bike was ridden hard by a top rider for at least 2 seasons, so that might not be an issue. I do recall that it creaked when he stood on it, though this is almost certainly the frame and not the bb. Others have noticed this creaking (not cracking) with different serial # Cosmos. Did you notice below the cartridge bearings in the head tube there are 4 permanent cable guides built in? Even with bar end shifters, not sure why the 4th guide. Lots more out of the box engineering going on with this bike that I’m sure will be discussed.

It does seem like things could loosen up and cause creaks. Harlan didn't glue the tubes into the lugs prior to riveting them in place, did he?
Those cable guides are interesting! At first, I was wondering if those weren't grease zerk fittings. I also wondered if he was just trying to keep things clean and tidy, but then I saw the shift levers at the top of the seat tube. Maybe this was just a way to not have to invent clamp-on cable or shift lever fittings for his unique diameter tubes? I'm a little surprised that he didn't just attach the fittings with rivets instead.

I do appreciate this close look at a Cosmopolitan! As expected, it's a testament to Harlan's creativity and unique vision of what can be done! It might also be a sign that he never talked to a product liability lawyer. :)

Steve in Peoria
(only ever owned a Hi-E hub and rim. Still using the hub)

3xLittle500 11-04-24 12:05 PM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...20ce3a92a.jpeg
The roll pins can be removed, in theory, by taking out one pin, removing the crank, then that gives access to the other. But mine seem to be very very happy where they are, and the bearings roll nicely, so I’m walnut shell blasting around them. I believe Harlan meant for the Cosmo to have bar ends with internal cables, but if the rider wanted standard shifters, only the seat tube accommodated standard diameter clamps. The brake internal cable guide exits center, thus center pulls.

3xLittle500 11-04-24 02:31 PM

Spoiler
 

grant40 12-10-24 09:42 AM

That's so cool to see another one of these frames that has been completed. This one looks like it has gotten good use out of it as well. This is the first one that I've seen where the frame was fully painted and not just patches of black paint on the lugs.

grant40 12-10-24 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by 3xLittle500 (Post 23386525)
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...20ce3a92a.jpeg
The roll pins can be removed, in theory, by taking out one pin, removing the crank, then that gives access to the other. But mine seem to be very very happy where they are, and the bearings roll nicely, so I’m walnut shell blasting around them. I believe Harlan meant for the Cosmo to have bar ends with internal cables, but if the rider wanted standard shifters, only the seat tube accommodated standard diameter clamps. The brake internal cable guide exits center, thus center pulls.

Where did you find such a bike?

3xLittle500 12-10-24 06:12 PM

I got it from the original owner and my friend, Steve Dayton. He was 1971 US national champ, finishing solo (on a Cinelli). He got the Cosmo from Harlan soon thereafter. He tells the story that one of Harlan’s 2 bike racing sons (Cat 1 rider) asked his dad when he was going to build him a bike? “When you win a national championship!” Tough love.

3xLittle500 12-10-24 08:21 PM

As you see, the original paint was flaking off all over the place in big chunks. I talked with a high end hot rod paint guy, and we walnut shell blasted it. After my hand polishing, it is like a mirror, but clear coats and even most primer will not adhere well to the polished aluminum. Powder coat is of course out due to temperature, and imron would be the call if I eventually decided to repaint as original but It just looks too beautiful to paint, and leaving it bare really shows the innovative, sometimes ugly, methods used to build this unique machine. Some Cosmopolitans were shipped this way so we can call it period correct, and at least for now, it is going to be built as uncoated polished aluminum including lugs, likely requiring periodic repolishing. We are very close to a finished restoration.

Smitty2k1 12-12-24 02:09 PM

Picked up this Jack Taylor tandem from the 1970s. Someone replaced the 27" wheels with 700c laced with hi-e hubs. Also has hi-e bottle cages.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c43b0fa47.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0b3f08f0c6.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...650fbf7dc2.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0bfd64cd4f.jpg

steelbikeguy 12-12-24 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 (Post 23413361)
Picked up this Jack Taylor tandem from the 1970s. Someone replaced the 27" wheels with 700c laced with hi-e hubs. Also has hi-e bottle cages.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c43b0fa47.jpg
......

gorgeous bike! Love the box lining, the racks, the fenders, etc! So nice!

I was trying to see the details of the hubs, and didn't see anything that struck me as being unique to Hi-E. My own Hi-E hub doesn't have any markings on it, so it can be ambiguous. I have seen photos of Hi-E hubs with some adhesive labels, though.

Those aren't Phil Wood hubs on the JT, because they were well marked.

They might be Bullseye hubs?? I had one rear Bullseye hub, and I think it had a sticker on it. What was unique was that the axle was modular. The was a spacer with a set screw that allowed you to remove the axle. The axle was threaded too, to allow just using a bolt instead of a QR to attach the wheel to the bike.
Here's an old shot of the Bullseye hub that I had...

https://live.staticflickr.com/7241/6...74d901_c_d.jpg

Regardless of who made the hubs, I'm intrigued by the method holding the hub to the dropouts. Some sort of "slow release" with a threaded rod that passes through the hub axle? I've got a Hi-E version of this, but it uses the standard Hi-E cone shape for the end pieces.

Steve in Peoria

bulgie 12-12-24 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 (Post 23413361)
Picked up this Jack Taylor tandem from the 1970s.

Cool bike!

I'm going off-topic, about the brakes on the JT, or at least the rear, or strictly speaking the right-rear, the only one I can see.

It's got the original Scott-Mathauser pads, which are super cool, but deadly. OK maybe I exaggerate, but I have seen a few of them where the rubber fell off the metal holder — it's only glued on, and the glue has been slowly deteriorating for the last almost 50 years. Maybe I should say more than a few, since it seems to be pretty common. I have several sets in a bin, and when I pulled on the rubber with my fingers, several of them were coming loose at one end, soon to detach if I used 'em. Bad if that happens during a panic stop.

Although many people report 100% reliability, I don't like the odds. It might not even need decades to happen; I know of at least one that fell of back in the '70s when it was brand new. It was on a Santana tandem I helped build when I worked there, being used with a fully-enclosed aero fairing for the IHPVA human-powered speed record trials at Ontario California, probably in'78. I wasn't one of the riders, but talked to them right after they came to a stop. They described the Mathauser pad bouncing around inside the fairing a few times before it found its way out the bottom. The Mathauser pads were mounted after the original Mafac pads made noxious smoke inside the fairing on an earlier run! Like the proverbial fart in a spacesuit, those guys were really eager to get out of that damn fairing filled with Mafac smoke.

But I digress!
I think your brake might be even older, since it appears to have periods in the logo: M.A.F.A.C., where later ones just had MAFAC.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3025f21c49.jpg

I don't know when they removed the dots, but I thought it was prior to 1970. Anyone know?

Smitty2k1 12-14-24 02:30 PM

Thanks for input on this. The original owners great-newphew sold it to me and it had the yellow hi-e stickers on it originally and he also had a big envelope full of extras. The bottle cages are marked hi-e too.

As for the brake pads - I'd been warned! Additionally this bike has 700c wheels but was obviously originally 27". The MAFAC cantis don't have a particularly great angle touching the rim so I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that.

The original bottle dynamo and front and rear lights still work though! Shifters shift and brakes brake. It's getting all new touch points and rubber and consumables (cables housing brake pads) for sure. The campy rally derailleur seems to still function great and the chain is well oiled for having sat for a long time.

chain_whipped 12-14-24 03:54 PM


Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 (Post 23414543)
Thanks for input on this. The original owners great-newphew sold it to me and it had the yellow hi-e stickers on it originally and he also had a big envelope full of extras. The bottle cages are marked hi-e too.

As for the brake pads - I'd been warned! Additionally this bike has 700c wheels but was obviously originally 27". The MAFAC cantis don't have a particularly great angle touching the rim so I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that.

Look them over closely. It may or not be the problem but I've seen this this due incorrect assembly. Easily can happen and then people start making it worse by bending the arms or grinding an angle into the pads.

On each brake arm are two plates.

The most forward plate is pre bent or has an angle.
The rear plate should not be bent and is flat.
Properly assembled the brake shoe is toe in.

So now compare the complete front brakes to the rear set. Observe the difference.

The rule is simple. For each brake arm, regardless of front or rear, left or right side, the most forward brake arm plate should be the pre-bent.





chain_whipped 12-14-24 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by bulgie (Post 23413418)
Cool bike!

I'm going off-topic, about the brakes on the JT, or at least the rear, or strictly speaking the right-rear, the only one I can see.

It's got the original Scott-Mathauser pads, which are super cool, but deadly. OK maybe I exaggerate, but I have seen a few of them where the rubber fell off the metal holder — it's only glued on, and the glue has been slowly deteriorating for the last almost 50 years. Maybe I should say more than a few, since it seems to be pretty common. I have several sets in a bin, and when I pulled on the rubber with my fingers, several of them were coming loose at one end, soon to detach if I used 'em. Bad if that happens during a panic stop.

Although many people report 100% reliability, I don't like the odds. It might not even need decades to happen; I know of at least one that fell of back in the '70s when it was brand new. It was on a Santana tandem I helped build when I worked there, being used with a fully-enclosed aero fairing for the IHPVA human-powered speed record trials at Ontario California, probably in'78. I wasn't one of the riders, but talked to them right after they came to a stop. They described the Mathauser pad bouncing around inside the fairing a few times before it found its way out the bottom. The Mathauser pads were mounted after the original Mafac pads made noxious smoke inside the fairing on an earlier run! Like the proverbial fart in a spacesuit, those guys were really eager to get out of that damn fairing filled with Mafac smoke.

But I digress!
I think your brake might be even older, since it appears to have periods in the logo: M.A.F.A.C., where later ones just had MAFAC.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3025f21c49.jpg

I don't know when they removed the dots, but I thought it was prior to 1970. Anyone know?

Great reading these bits of IHPVA history from those whom were there.

As for the subject matter, I believe these are the earlier M.A.F.A.C. Criterium cantilever brakes.

The following on the brake shoes might get lost or drifting from the OP but if it helps for someone later.....

That version Scott-Matthauser finned shoes have a hollow shaft stud. One can still buy direct from Kool Stop the raw stick in salmon formula. (call them direct / approx cost $15)

Then using a razor, cut it longitude to thin it down. Clean up and fine tune thickness by sanding. Then trim to the shoe length.

Now with the exposed area where the adhesive sets, prep with a little sanding and clean with alcohol. Insert a small screw into the hollow shaft. Leave 3/16" protrude and cut off the screw head.

Center the prepared Kool Stop pad and make a temporary mark in the rubber where it meets that screw. Make a smaller hole in that rubber pad for the screw.

Adhere pad to shoe. I've had zero issues using a Loctite product of some sort Super Glue. Used in very high temps and also in the wet.

repechage 12-14-24 04:46 PM

Loctite makes a wide range of specialty adhesives. Without a product name and best yet, a part number that procedure and advice is not a tremendous amount of help.

bulgie 12-14-24 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 (Post 23414543)
this bike has 700c wheels but was obviously originally 27". The MAFAC cantis don't have a particularly great angle touching the rim

Mafac Tandem cantis are 2 mm taller than the shorter-arm "Criterium" canti, so you'd get a slightly better angle by switching to those. Or if you don't mind the anachromism, most newer cantis have at least some up/down adjustment range, independent of the angle adjustment. Shimano Deore/XT with some adjustment there came out in about '82-'83 I think? They're what I used on my '84 MTB. On that bike I intentionally put the posts on a bit high, to maximise the leverage and braking force, to the point where I filed on the brake a little to increase the range of adjustment in that direction. The place where you file has lots of metal, so there's no worry about strength. But I'm guessing you won't need to file, just get most any newer canti with adjustment there, and you should be fine.

Again, apologies for zero Hi-E content!

Smitty2k1 12-14-24 07:12 PM


Originally Posted by bulgie (Post 23414622)
Mafac Tandem cantis are 2 mm taller than the shorter-arm "Criterium" canti, so you'd get a slightly better angle by switching to those. Or if you don't mind the anachromism, most newer cantis have at least some up/down adjustment range, independent of the angle adjustment. Shimano Deore/XT with some adjustment there came out in about '82-'83 I think? They're what I used on my '84 MTB. On that bike I intentionally put the posts on a bit high, to maximise the leverage and braking force, to the point where I filed on the brake a little to increase the range of adjustment in that direction. The place where you file has lots of metal, so there's no worry about strength. But I'm guessing you won't need to file, just get most any newer canti with adjustment there, and you should be fine.

Again, apologies for zero Hi-E content!

Thanks for the advice. I'm not terribly concerned about period correctness or anything

grant40 12-15-24 11:52 AM

Bikeville thoughts: Bikes from Cirque, Part 4- Hi E bicycle

I found this page showing an almost new condition orange Hi-E Cosmopolitan.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89ac4c9d0e.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...76b3286593.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bfde3120e7.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5f04893057.jpg

gaucho777 12-15-24 01:35 PM

^That crank is wild, and certainly not elegant. It's not clear to me how it attaches to the BB spindle. What is the rod (pin?) going through the center? I'd like to see the nds crank arm. 2-piece crankset with built in spindle? Anyone know?

steelbikeguy 12-15-24 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 23415087)
^That crank is wild, and certainly not elegant. It's not clear to me how it attaches to the BB spindle. What is the rod (pin?) going through the center? I'd like to see the nds crank arm. 2-piece crankset with built in spindle? Anyone know?

I had that same question a while ago, and got an answer here: https://www.bikeforums.net/23386525-post133.html

There's two tapered roll pins on each side that affix the crank arm to the tube/axle.
The pin that is oriented perpendicular to the crank arm is just shoved through from one side to the other.
The other pin is installed inline with the crank arm. I'm not sure how you get it back out.

It's not the worst way to be able to use a hollow tube for the axle, but I have questions about how well it held up. Harlan seemed to be designing with low weight as the top priority, and with durability way down the list.

Steve in Peoria
(but my Heavy Duty Hi-E hub is still being used)


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