Apparently Upton Sinclair has joined the ranks of C&V.

Remarkably similar to the Park Tool method.

There's a big difference between learning to do something the careful, well-prepared way and then doing it again with more basic tools but based on that experience, and doing something in a way that could cause damage as you learn. I don't consider any of my frames replaceable if I cause damage. I know my hub axles are hard to replace (that is, Campy axles are getting rarer and dearer). I haven't bought a "hack on this" frame to learn with, and don't plan to. I'd rather put that $$ into either qualified services or good tools for me to use.

I appreciate your position of skill, T-mar, but I worry about the overbent chainstays we're hearing about.

Road Fan

I've got a Robin Hood (of the Raleigh family) of uncertain vintage, but at least 25 years old.

It has, I believe, 120 spacing in the dropouts.

Is it conceivable I could spread it enough to get in an Alfine hub?

That's why I said what I did in my previous post on this thread "It's going to take a bit of trial and error. Just start out with low force and gradually increase the force, measuring for a permanent spacing increase after each try. The last thing you want to do is apply too much force on the first try and buckle the stays. "

This is one case where no pro tool will prevent you from using too much force or even give you an advantage during the learning curve. It's going to be trial and error.

Starting out on hack frames isn't necessarily going to help. Hi-tensile steel is far easier to cold set than CrMo or Mn Mo. As the steels get stronger, more force is required and there is less margin of error, due to the thinner tubing. You're starting all over again, with each step up the tubing ladder.

As I said previously, just start with a light force and measure the result. If there is no permanent deflection, just keep increasing the force and measuring, until you get one. Sure, an LBS will have a better appreciation of the general amount of foece required for a certain steel, but even the good ones will start low and build up, they just won't start as low. The only advantage to an LBS, is you have avenues for compensation, if they damage the frame.

BTW, I started out cold setting frames with hockey sticks and measuring results with string and rulers. I did this for several years before going into the business and buying the pro tools. In some cases, the pro alignment measurng tools do expedite the process, which is critical for making a profit. They are more efficient but not more effective.

The string and 2x4 got mine set pretty well. Also, going 2mm out on one side, then 2 out on the other to round out the difference makes it easy. Having digital calipers available to track the movement is good too.

As mentioned, I did "overshoot" as I was incrementally adding force, and spaced myself out to 140 on just moving one side. It didn't look like I damaged anything though...

Anyone that has any doubts probably should take their frame to a mechanic they trust or a framebuilder. I would never criticize someone for doing that. I still remember they guy who said he was going to build his own wheel, and asserted that he was qualified due to being a graduate student in Mechanical Engineering. I told him I was an undergrad mechanical engineering student and that he would be back. He was.

The other reason you want to do that is to get them to make sure the dropouts are parallel and that the derailleur hanger is coplaner with the wheel. I was going to get the tool to check the hangar, but it costs $75, which I thought was about $50 too much.

I got the tool in a grab bag of 30 Park Tools for $30.

Going from 126 to 130 only "misaligns" the dropouts by 1/3 of a degree.