Brooks saddle defect?
 

I recently got my brooks b17 in BRG and I noticed something about it...

I haven't done anything to the saddle aside from usin some proofhide, but I noticed there are a few streaks on it near the back end going to the side. I'm not really worried about the aesthetic, but wanted to know if it's a known defect that may affect the saddle later on?

Also, the tension bolt is not set forward all the way pressed up against the nose of the saddle. I compared it to my black B17 standard which has the bolt pressed against the nose of the saddle.

Is the streaking a known defect of any sort or just a side effect of coloring?

Should I adjust it so that the bolt is all the way forward resting against the nose of the saddle?

I can't speak to the tension bolt, but the streaking sounds like something that's a side effect of colouring. Nonetheless, it should not have gotten past the quality control if it's that noticeable.

East Hill

I agree, Brooks saddles carry a hefty price so I would return or trade it if I wasn't happy with it. The bolt on my brooks sits against the nose, I don't know if they are all like that or not.

Yeah, if I coughed up a fat chunk of change for a Brooks I'd want it to be deadly gorgeous.

Pics?

Your saddle is made out of cow hyde, so its not uncommon for there to be some irregularities in the hyde. Thats just the nature of the beast with leather. But if its too distracting, or overly noticable against the British Racing Green, maybe you could send it back.

I really dont mind the streaks as long as they're purely from the coloring process and not from tension/stress placed on the saddle. Looks like I'm good and I still have the warranty just in case.

Here's the response from Brooks (GREAT customer service and really fast reply)

"Hello Sonny

Thanks for writing to Brooks Both of the observations that you make are quite normal to see with a Brooks. Leather, being a natural substance, kind of has a mind of its own and will never conform to exacting parameters that you expect from a man-made substance. It is all part of the quirkiness of owning a leather product and sometimes gives a personalized or customized perception.

In my experience, there is no functional detriment with your saddle and I would advise that you do not try to take any action with it at all now; The leather will make its own adjustments within a short while and the tension has been correctly set by our guys for (usually) the first 6 months of its life.

Best Regards Steve Green

PS Remember that a Brooks warranty does cover two years, just in case anything does continue worry you in the near future - but honestly, all should be well "

Well done Brooks.
All Brooks saddles will gradually change colour with use and develop patina. I like it...IMO it improves the appearance.
They may have changed the construction of their saddles a bit which may explain the difference in the bolt placement.

It is always great to read about pleasant customer service experiences, the 2 year replacement warranty is really great too. I have had similar luck with Trek's customer service department.

One advantage of buying used, well used, is that you don't have to worry about the warranty!:):):)

So, the tensioning bolt is only used for adjusting the tension of the saddle leather. It's set at factory to some, I assume, well researched parameter. If the your saddle came from it's builder already at that particular parameter it would not have been "tensioned" with the bolt. If it sags, well then that is when one would adjust with the bolt. Hide thicknesses being variable no two Brooks® saddles are initially alike underneath.

Ever think of having this done?

the streaks are likely stretchmarks on the leather. They wont take the dye quite as well as the rest of the hide...

This not deffect?
 

Brooks said it was okay, I do not agree!
What me do?

Ride it......

Personally I would return that saddle. Yes, natural hides can and do have anomalies but I would want a better piece of leather than that since they do exist. I would be nice to be in a position where one could look through several and pick out a particularly nice example, but that's not a reality for most of us. I bought a new B-17 years ago that was not symmetrical side to side, which caused me hell on my inner thigh. Had to ditch it.

I'd ride it.

ride it like you stole it

If it's brand new and you're unhappy with it you should contact the seller and see about an exchange.

Personally I'd ride it.

+1

Imperfections are inherent in any natural product, plus, I have a reverence for any animal that literally gave its hide for me. (It's sort of like a Cherokee sensibility I suppose.)

I've had a mini-rant about this a couple of times on C&V.

What's happening in that in the past year or so Brooks has started using a lot of neck hide for their saddles. Hide from the neck area is not technically inferior to back, it just looks... well, like veronin's example, horrible. As pointed out by positron, the creases in the leather don't take the dye.

I got a Professional which was awful and immediately assumed Brooks were cutting costs by choosing cheaper leather. However, and according to old leather craftsman friends of mine, the Yellow Bros, whether neck hide is cheaper than back depends on the seller... but it's my bet that whoever Brooks gets their leather from it's from a company that sells neck cheaper. Look at any Brooks more than a couple of years old and you will not see creases or scaling.

If you want to get an acceptable Brooks, my advice is to go to a shop that stocks them and check before you buy.

IMO, Brooks reply to Tigerprawn is a brush off. That, 'Leather, being a natural substance, kind of has a mind of its own and will never conform to exacting parameters that you expect from a man-made substance. It is all part of the quirkiness of owning a leather product and sometimes gives a personalized or customized perception.' is suggesting that the customer's complaints are caused by the customer's inadequacy, what F. Zappa would call Cosmik Debris, and is their way of saying, 'It's your fault for caring what the saddle looks like.'

This is my Pro, before I flew into a 'petulant frenzy' at it:
[IMG]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3420/5...936c1f52bc.jpg
IMG_3370 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

I do too, but no reverence for a quality control department that lets less than up to snuff products out the door. But I'm picky. I don't remember ever seeing Brooks saddles with flawed leather back when. That said, it's probably strictly cosmetic and should ride fine.
But I'm big on proper cosmetics on a $130 saddle.

I might have bought that one on purpose because it had more character. Just ride it.

Do you what you want, but I'd ride it.

Brooks is correct. That's every bit as good as any other new B17 in terms of function.

Depends on whether you bought the saddle to look at or to ride on......... My Brooks Professional, had a lovely honey colour to it when I bought it 17 years ago. It's matured into a deep brown over the years and has softened slightly with use and occasional treatment with tan boot polish on the top and boiled linseed oil on the underside. It's still relatively hard, but supremely comfortable as it's moulded itself to the shape of my backside. It will outlast me and yours will outlast you - especially if you keep looking at it and not riding it.

Imperfections are inherent in any natural product - agreed

Brooks reply to Tigerprawn is a brush off. No it isn't, it's a perfectly logical and straightforward reply.

The nut on mine has never needed re-tightening, and the best thing you can do is leave the nut alone.

Just ride the thing and you won't even notice any streaking - not unless you ride naked.

I have tried buying a piece of leather to make a saddle out of it, and I could not find anyone who would sell me a small piece. They would sell me a large piece, that is, a whole side; which is, well, about the size of one side of a cow. It's enough to make quite a few saddles. Now I suppose Brooks may have ways of buying partial hides that I don't have, and they may well prefer to make saddles from the butt of the cow, where the best leather is; but frankly I suspect they, too, have to buy their leather by the side, or by the hide; then what do you want them to do with the rest of it? I suppose they could charge a different price, depending where the leather came from... and maybe they do. But using the whole hide is the environmentally responsible thing to do.

I read somewhere where Rolls Royce only buys from free range cattle without barbed wire fences that can ruin a hide. I also found the following:

Individual Phantoms need 400 pieces of leather (requiring 17 to 18 hides) for the upholstery and trim. The leather comes from German Bavarian bulls — as they are larger — or sometimes from bulls reared in Argentina or South Africa. A little known fact is that Rolls-Royce's leather craftsmen will only use bull hide — hide from cows is considered of no use because it contains stretch marks!

From personal observation, the new Brooks saddles do not always seem to present the same quality, I am used to in a Brooks product. Perhaps this is just my imagination, but I do prefer the vintage saddles, as opposed to the high priced stuff that comes in a box or bag, these days.

I find that the newer saddles tend to stretch or break in much quicker. To me this suggests a lighter grade of leather. Of course I am not expert when it comes to a cow or bull. I do know that my best friend used to work in a factory that made leather products. He commented on the quality of the leather on a new saddle I had,comparing it to an older but identical model. He thought the older one to sported better leather. So...

If Brooks has lowered its standard to include neck leather, rather than back leather, then the quality will be lowered, also. Bottom line has little to do with how ones bottom feels, or so it seems.

Looks fine to me. The real test is what my butt thinks about it.

In my mind, when paying the price for a Brooks these days, I expect one that is pretty much defect free. Were I the OP, I would try to exchange the saddle if it was going to bother me. If he, or she, can live with the flaw and think of it as part of the natural beauty of the product, so be it, and keep the saddle.

The issue is cosmetic only and my guess is that it will look just fine as the saddle breaks in and develops its own patina of age/use.

Try a Tandy Leather retail shop. They usually have a table of remnants out.

That's a very good point. Brooks do seem to have widened their ranges considerably, what with all the 'specials' now being offered. Also, if what we're seeing is a result of them using whole hides, instead of maybe in the past discarding the neck area, I guess we would be paying higher prices per saddle than at present.