kbjack

I was just prepping my Raleigh Competition conversion to sell and noticed something I'd never really inspected closely before: touch up paint/primer under the top tube at the head lug joint.

This got me thinking bad things, mostly about the previous owner of the frame who neglected to mention anything when I bought it a few years ago, but also about the potential for front end damage.

Honestly, I can't tell. Some of the signs are there--paint damage mostly--but every once in a while when looking obsessively at the frame I think I see a bend or kink. Then, in a fit of positive thinking it goes away.

I just need some objective eyes on this thing.


Whaddaya think?:

Picchio Special

Photos tend to create bends where they don't exist - I have a feeling that's one reason I got my Trek 170 on ebay so inexpensively. But I think the paint damage is a bad sign.

SoreFeet

Relax your not selling a carbon fiber bicycle. It's likely structurally sound. If it doesn't ride with poor handling I wouldn't worry about it. It might have been crashed, it might have been poorly prepared at the factory. Some faults in tubing are likely to occur at some point.

Its not likely that anything will give without notice.

Old Fat Guy

Looks bent to me. Set a straight edge on it. Looks like there may be a crack in the lug, too.

The fork looks bent in the one picture, but it's a weird angle.

Take it up to Matt and have the shop check it.

cudak888 

I think you are OK on this one - the lower curve of the Prugnat lug is what is fooling your eye. Notice that the perceived bend will vanish if you shade the lower half of the top tube with your hand.

That's the first Prugnat-lugged Competition that I've seen. It looks gorgeous with those lugs - absolutely gorgeous. If you're convinced it's bent, I'm convinced that I'll take it off your hands

-Kurt

cudak888 

Crack in the lug...or in the paint? Lugs don't crack that easy from front-enders, especially not at the bottom.

-Kurt

miamijim

Geez...its kind of tough to tell. I see what ofg's seeing in regards to the lug but its so hard to tell. an old school way of checking for cracks is to wipe the area for alcohol and watch it evaporate. alcohol will seep into a crack and take longer to evaporate.

Can you send a super hi-res image of the lug area without paint to my email? jim2527@hotmail.com

kbjack

Lug's definitely not cracked. Here are a couple more undercarriage shots:



What you're likely seeing is a less-than-perfectly filed ridge in the lug.

It's so hard to know what the origins of the paint damage are because of the damned messy touch-ups.

The fork is straight as far as I can tell:


The fact that it's turning Kurt's eye gives me confidence. But I think I might take it down to Matt anyway.

Edit: thanks for the offer Jim. Let me see if I can get some shots with better lighting.

kbjack

A couple more for Jim:

Grand Bois

My Carlton has a very subtle S curve in the top tube. I don't think it was wrecked. I think they forced it to match the angle of the lugs at the factory. I've read that a frame built under tension is likely to develop cracks, but the frame is 50 years old and it's okay so far.

trueno92

why not take a straight-edge and hold it against the top tube as it approaches the headtube.

it should be flush against it, should u take that straight edge/level and hold it against the top tube at say the 3,6,9,12 o clock areas on the tube.

if you see any light passing between the top tube and straight edge, then there could be a bend. just make sure the straight edge is completely aligned to the top tube.

kbjack

Based on the overall fit and finish of the Raleigh, I'd say there's a good chance that this is what's going on with my Competition.

I'd love to have been an industrial strength fly on the wall back when the folks at Carlton were assembling these frames.

Seems like a lot of fish got through the QA net.

cyclotoine

I think the missing paint is from cable housing rub.

But why is it on the opposite side of where the cable should be routed?

My guess is someone has it set up with aero levers at some point so had to route it around the opposite side.

Grand Bois

I have a Competition, too. I know exactly what you mean.

Reynolds 

Hard to tell from photos, but could the "bent" look be caused by the conical shape of the lug?

Panthers007

Looks like an optical illusion from here. Very true that if you shield your view of the lug, the perception of curvature vanishes.

unterhausen

retracted...

kbjack

Thanks guys--I'm back to thinking that it's probably fine. If there's any bend at all it's most likely the result of Raleigh's credo of "best practice=oy, wotevah" [bad Cockney accent].

Anyway, here's the bike in all its Brit path racer glory:



(Now I'm back on the fence about letting this one go--I always seem to be on the fence with it...maybe a sign.)

Panthers007

Isn't the right crank-arm a little bent?



<kidding>

Next Up: The Salvador Dali 13-spd with Escher-Drive!

JohnDThompson 

It don't see any crack, but it definitely has taken a frontal impact. Here's enhanced versions of the OP's pictures:

kbjack

You noticed that did you...maybe I should start a thread....



Any help with this one?

kbjack

No, no, no--it's fine, it's fine!

...could you clarify: what are you seeing in these pictures?

Panthers007

I'll get my Tarot Cards...

Oh - that bike above? That's the preferred mode of transportation in The Twilight Zone.

unterhausen

I'm not convinced it's not bent, but the lugs definitely contribute to that. If the top tube is bent like that, so is the down tube. I doubt even Raleigh would let a bike go that was visibly bent. My thought is that their processes wouldn't include a step that would require such a thing to happen. For some reason, it seems to be the DT that shows evidence of manufacturing malpractice.

King of Kadence

The top tube is bent and the down tube is deformed/angled where it enters the lug. Probably from an impact. They don't pre-crash them at the factory. It's odd that that fork doesn't clearly show crash damage.

Does the bike track straight and you can ride it with no hands?