So, I picked up a mid 80's paramount last weekend from an awesome seller for a decent deal. The bike is in good shape, some paint chips here and there, a smidge of rust, but it fits like a dream and rides wonderfully. It came with an eclectic mixture of components (some are pictured), not sure what I am going to put on it. I have a 7 speed DA group (minus FR) that would fit the 126 rear, but I also have most of an 8 speed Sora STI mixture if I want to stretch it out. OR I could remove the 10 speed 105 from my fuji regis. Too many decisions.

The serial number on the BB is T 560. Not sure what the T is for, but it is a size 56. I cannot read the number on the dropout. Could this have been a repaint? Should I pick some of the pain off the dropout to get the number or just live without finding its full background? There is also no sticker telling what kind of steel is used, either peeled off or repainted without it.

Anyway, I am just stoked about the frame. Going to remove the BB (spanner is on its way!) and wax her up. I will post more pictures in the future, if school ever gives me a breather. Hopefully the pictures come up, I have had trouble before:

Very nice, I'm jealous. Paramounts are moving up my list of must haves real fast. My opinion (not that you asked for it ) would be to go with the DA group and keep the Sora and 105 far, far away from it. I'm all about modernizing, but it doesn't seem right to put low to mid level components on a frame that nice, even if the newer mid level stuff is an upgrade from the older high level stuff. I'd either keep the older DA or get newer DA to put on it. I might could be talked into going with Ultegra, but I doubt it.

Schwinn used the "old style" date coded serial numbers through late 1984 (e.g. D8435, which would translate to the 35th frame built in April, 1984). Sometime between 1983 and September, 1984, the serial number was moved from the left rear dropout to the bottom of the BB shell. Then, sometime between September, 1984 and April, 1985, they switched to the long "self-describing" serial numbers (e.g. 520AD8584, which translates to a 52cm seat tube frame using a fork with the short production steerer tube, 84th frame built during April, 1985).

It looks like your bike has been repainted, and the paint has filled in the old style date coded serial number on the left rear dropout. To find out what the serial number is, you'll have to carefully remove the paint around the stamped serial number on the left rear dropout using an Exacto knife or similar. It's definitely an early eighties Paramount. Once you get the serial number, we can tell you what tube set was used (most likely Columbus SLX or SL/SP mix).

I agree with Stan. It has been repainted. The rear dropouts and the drive side chainstay should be chrome. It would be a shame if it had been an '83 or early '84 when they came with the rather rare rainbow decals.

Slightly OT:

Does anyone know how to remove this FD band? I have the same mount on my '83, and I've never been able to remove it. I simply slid it down to the BB shell.

I need to know how to preform an exorcism.

brockd15, I am definately leaning toward the DA. At least for now...

Stan, I will gently remove some paint to find the number. I can see it, but can make nothing out.

pastorbob, I HAD THE SAME QUESTION! That's why I included the shot, just forgot to ask. Anyone have ideas? I think it could be pried off, but I may want to out it back on.

I had one of these bands (SunTour as I recall) on the Cannondale I used to own. To take it off you just use a Phillips head screw driver to remove the screw that holds the band together. Beware though, once off they are a bear to get back on as the edge of the band acts as a clip and needs to catch the opposite side of the band. Getting that band back on held up my C'dale rebuild for half a day.

Bob, that's the endless band system from Suntour. Don't know why they abandoned it, IMO, it made for a clean look.
One end of the band simply loops over the bolt. There should be enough clearance.
I'm in need of one of those bands! My Suntour FD came with it missing! Should Kalifornisky or yourself plan to part this piece out, PM me!

NOTE: Upon thinking, Shimano also released a FD with a similar band mount. I've not come across it and don't have working details. Maybe you have a Shimano band?

[family belly]
Ah yes, the missing extra step. Strange, I had no trouble mounting a new Cyclone II FD with this system onto my brother's Triumph. But we did have the Suntour instruction sheet.

I thought you just unscrew that double-threaded bolt and then pry apart the band. That's what I did with the Suntour FD band I had on a Bottec.

Thanks for all the tips. Mine is a Suntour just like the one kalifornsky pictured. I tried every Phillips head screw driver I own (and I have at least 2 dozen) to do just as WNG, jebensch, and Family Belly all suggest. Mine will not budge. By any chance does it have reverse threads?

I'll be glad to send it (along with the FD) to anyone who needs it--- or provides the ultimate solution to my troubles.

i had a cyclone II FD with the same band. I do believe that the phillips headed screw is reverse threaded. Righty ...loosey. Check it out and it should work. I'd check mine but I've actually lost the clamp...if anyone wants the FD let me know

I'd be happy to take that Gipiemme-badged Simplex derailer off your hands.

Nice bike. I agree with the comments from Scooper and Pastorbob and can add the following. The fork crown cutout and seat stay attachment suggests the 84-86 range. A couple of details suggest things unique to 1984 and those are - Cinelli BB shell (my 84 has one, my 86 does not), if I see the picture clearly, it has cable guides on the top of the BB shell (I think only on the 84), and the derailleur cable stop is on the top of the chain stay. I think Pastorbob has an 84, does yours have these details?? As previously suggested, if it is an 84, it came with the rare rainbow decals. In any case - you have a nice one, enjoy!

For their top-end mountain bikes, the Paramountain and KOM-10, they retained the old style date code through the 1980s -- see my signature. Different numbering for different factories ...

Ok, took an exacto to the rear left drop out, serial number is: M8340. Which means, a 56.0 frame made in December, 1983 and was the 40th frame that month? Where was it made?

Tried the ole' righty loosey on the FD band, but all it did was strip it and I am not going to touch it until I find my smaller screwdriver (will have to use regulare since the phillips almost ruined it).

Dirtdrop, I was planning on cleaning and parting out the components, pm me if you want to work something. Not sure of the value off the top of my head, but I am sure we can figure it out. Any thing terribly special about it?

kalifornsky, as a 1983, it is a repaint, because originally it had the rainbow decals. This is a shame because Richard Schwinn emailed Yogurt last year about his undated and lacking a serial number Paramount, that there were only about 350 Paramounts with these decals. So they are out there, but not many were built in this style.

These were what were known as the first batch of "Standard" Paramounts. After Schwinn closed down the Chicago Paramount cage the end of 1979, to move the operation to Waterford, WI, the first two years they only made "Elite," or completely custom ordered Paramounts (these are really rare). In 1983 the "Standard" frameset became available. This was still a handbuilt frame, but it came in predetermined sizes and paint colors. They had to be ordered at the local Schwinn shop, which then either sold it to the customer as a frameset, or worked with the customer to build the bike to their component specifications. This is why all of the '83-'84 Paramounts have different components on them. No two are identical.

ParaWK4, I had thought about checking this same detail after I got off the computer last night. I'm glad you thought of it. Mine is a May 1983 built frameset. It has the Cinelli BB shell, the above the BB cable routing, and the top side chain stay stop.

The original owner of mine (technically I'm number 3, but mrmw was the second and he basically prepped it to flip), was a Schwinn LBS owner or manager. He ordered the frameset and then built it with a mix of Campagnolo Record, Gran Sport, Suntour Cyclone, and DiaCompe. I'm not certain why the hodge podge? Someday I hope to live in a flatter place and plan to return it to either all Superbe or all Record. For now, it is ready to climb any mountain NH throws in front of me.

kalifornsky, since the paint on yours is not original, and not in the best shape, I'd say it is worthy of a full restoration. Start saving those dollars! Drit Drop can help you get started by sending you a Ben Franklin for the that very very very rare Gipiemme RD.

Best of luck on your project!

It stripped because it is definitely NOT basterd (intentionally mis-spelled for the auto-nanny) threaded. How could it be? A regular old number 1 or so phillips should take it right out. Try a little liquid wrench or something to help the project along. You don't have to "pry" anything either as was suggested, it's held in place by spring tension. If it doesn't just pop right off when you remove the bolt try squeezing it together a little first. When you and PB have both successfully removed the woefully under-appreciated SunTour endless band be sure to drop them in envelopes and send them straight to me. Apparently lots of people have difficulty figuring it out; I have a drawer full of beautiful front derailleurs with no bands

I wish it were that easy. I'm certain I tried both directions before I slipped mine down to the BB.

And if I didn't try some Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster, I'd be surprised (I worked on mine last summer so I'm a little unclear on exactly what I tried). I'll give it another try. Too bad Suntour didn't use a hex wrench inside the mounting post. Are you certain about it coming out via Lefty Loosey?

It took me a while to figure out which bill has Ben Franklin on it.

Thanks Pastor Bob.

Drit Drop

Come on DD, where's your sense of humor? After all a Dr.D. paint job would set kalifornsky back something like $1500 now. You'd only fund about 7%. I'll send him a Thomas Jefferson for that very common Suguino crankset.

Oh definitely, the female hex bolt that holds the derailleur onto the clamp is standard threaded, so if the post were threaded into the band backwards it wouldn't work.

I hate everyone that owns a Paramount!.....till I own one.....them Ill love you all!
(Really nice bike BTW!)

I thought of this last evening. Righty tighty on the outside bolt would unthread the inside if it were reverse threaded. I certainly would like to remove the FD band in some other fashion then unbrazing the BB shell.

i think it would be a very unfair sale,unless, you got it cheap,cheap, if the seller did not let ya know it was a repaint,unless he was not aware of it,,stuff like that really ticks me off!!

ilikebikes: haha, thanks!

pastorbob: its too bad about the decals! I will ride it for awhile without a full repaint since weather is getting nicer, though the pocket book is thinning! Seriously though, I'm not all that familiar with Sugino or Gipiemme; are they worthy enough to sell if I have no immediate need for them? Or should I hold onto them for a bit? I'm probably going to keep the suntour superbe pro FD because I cannot get the band off!

texastwister: the seller did not mention it was a repaint, but she also thought it was a mid 70's model. The lack of nervex lugs helped to solve that mystery quickly. It was a good price, not a cheap, cheap, cheap price. BUT it was my fit and the type I was in the market for, so the stars were in place!

As a December, 1983 bike, it would be a 1984 model year. According to the 1984 catalog, the tubing would be a mix of Columbus SL and SP.