I bought this 10 speed off a guy who told me it was a Raleigh, which it said on the stem but no where else on the bike. I stupidly repainted over the frame, but the lettering on the top frame read something to the likes of Wymrann or maybe Mryanno. It either started with an M or W, had a y in it and more than one n's or m's (sorry i know this is vague). The rear derailer was a Suntour Honor, which I looked up and am pretty sure its of the 4th generations from around 1976. A lot of the metal pieces on the bike say ZZR on them. The badge was quite worn out and i couldnt really make out the lettering. it was almost oval in shape, with what looked like sun rays in the background and maybe a lion with wings on it? (sorry i know, vague!). lets see what else...the bike is blue in color, and also has the olympic rings on the main post of the frame. also, there is housing down the drop tube of the bike for a shifter lever on the right side.

if anyone has any idea what this could be, or could point me in the direction of where i could information i would greatly appreciate it!

Pictures? Close ups of the lugs please.

And any serial numbers you can find on the frame.

blarg i am sadly not home, but i will take pictures tomorrow and find any numbers/additional info i can.

okay, just took some pics (the bike has my first shody attempt at a paint job which i plan on doing over):
















again, if anyone has any idea what this could be, it would be greatly appreciated.

That Raleigh stem is a (I)Much(/I) later addition. It's old, probably late 60's other than that I have not a clue.

Sounds like a joke about a cross between Miyata and Weinmann ...

go to www.velobase.com and browse the headbadge gallery.

thanks for the advice. i checked that site but couldnt really find anything. maybe i'll try scraping the paint off and see if the lettering is still there.

The crank appears to be a double, but there appears to be only one shifter, and it's on a brazed shifter mount. Therefore the original front derailleur must have been a lever-actuated ("suicide") model. Am I right? Therefore this frame must date to the very early 60's or earlier.

I'd like to see more photos... is there a oil port on the BB? What's the BB threading? What are the dropouts?

Looks like a nice old touring frame at any rate.

Use a little "goof-off" to dissolve the rattlecan paint, and you should see any lettering that's left.

Definitely not a Raleigh. Looks French to me. What's the bottom bracket and fork threading?

when i bought the bike there was actually a second shifter that was attached right below the mounted one as well as a front derailleur so i am not sure if its what you speak of. I can check the bottom bracket and dropouts tomorrow and take pictures. anything else you think is worth taking pictures of let me know.


JohnDThompson:

the lettering originally didn't look english. im going to try and remove some of the paint and get a snap of the original lettering. i'm taking pictures of the bottom bracket and will check the fork threading as well.


thanks for all the help so far, more pictures to come!

if this adds anything to what was said before about the suicide shifter, i looked it up and i do not think there was a suicide shifter originally, but there could have been. the attached front derailleur shifter that i got with the bike was completely different from the mounted rear derailleur shifter, thus there could have originally been a suicide shifter and possibly neither of the shifters that came with the bike are originals.

also, i came across this picture:

although not in use, my bike does have 2 housing points for 2 cables for the rear derailleur like the bike pictured above. i dont know if that helps.

Helps a lot. Older simplex derailleurs and a wealth of others used a double rear lever, like the one in your picture. The idea was that the main lever positioned the derailleur, and the secondary lever adjusted the chain tension to a minimum. It was thought that excessive chain tension was terrible. The idea faded away in the early 50's. I have a couple of those derailleurs, but have never found a double lever, except in pictures.

so because of the mounted housing for the rear derailleur only and the double cable housing for the rear derailleur, i can assume the bike is from some point in the 50's?

I just got a windsor abit ago and the lugs look like the ones on yours but are chrome, not sure if many other road bikes use same lugs as Windsor, I'm just getting into the whole road bike thing, my windsor will be my road bike when it gets repainted.

could you take a picture?

Some french frames used single brazed on shifter mounts into the 70's. Huret made a special clamp on mount that wrapped around the RD braze on to mount the front derrailleur.

I'm using heine - the golden age of bicycles as a reference. his new one: The Competition Bicycle, has better reference for this type of derailleur but it isn't downstairs right now and I don't want to climb those stairs before I ride...the Mayeux (1947 or so) shows the double rear lever well. The last bike with the potential for a double lever is a 1966 Jo Routens. That one is set up with a looping simplex lever, not the same thing, but I think you could use the older double lever if you wanted.

In this reference, there are several with the double rear derailleur cable housings, but they seem to be all from the 30's(!). I think that the Competition Bicycle shows this setup used well into the 50's with racing bikes, though. I'll look later (after the ride).

Have we decided that it has a french bottom bracket?

okay i took some more pictures of what people asked.















crappy picture, but of the double housing for the rear derailleur cables:


the lever that came for the front derailleur (simplex):


i found a possible serial # on one of the dropouts: 680C6. also, both breaks have the letters ZZR and say Made In Poland.

hope some of this helps!

Heres the 10$ windsor I picked up, lugs are kinda the same.

Alast mine was alsopainted by a noob, and was misstreated, theres a dent, but I fixed that dent!

the parts aren't gonna help much - it has been modernized. The things that the crank axle passes through are called the bottom bracket cups. Is there any writing on the cups that you can see?

Similar rear drops. Seat stays not fluted tho.

Robo--if you're going to repaint anyway, seems like a good idea to do some gentle paint removal to look for painted on info or decals under the paint... or hidden serial #s. Gentle (e.g. chemical) esp. on the lugs in case they're chromed!!

Thats how I found out mines a windsor and why it was repainted lol Under the paint i found a grinded off serial number, so this bike had an intresting past.

im going to get something to remove the paint. anything suggested for careful paint removal?

Robo.. as in the drummer for Black Flag?