Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

frame alignment - DIY or LBS?

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

frame alignment - DIY or LBS?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-30-09 | 07:24 AM
  #1  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
frame alignment - DIY or LBS?

My '76 fuji track frame failed the "string" test by ~5mm - gap is 33mm right, and 28mm left. The bike rides okay, but when I look down at the front tire when tracking straight ahead, the back half of the tire isn't completely hidden by the down tube. I can see that I have to steer slightly (5mm?) left to keep the bike straight. Is this something I can mostly fix ala sheldon brown's "2x4" frame alignment method? Or should I give in and pay $$$ to the LBS? My front fork is straight and both wheels are dished correctly...
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 08:07 AM
  #2  
peripatetic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 2
From: NYC

Bikes: All 70s and 80s, only steel.

Cold-setting a rear w/ a 2x4 isn't that difficult. You didn't mention if the dropout spacing itself, but assuming it's the original (not spread), then you'll simply have to be patient and work one side at a time. I'd move the off side 1mm or so, then work on moving the other side to follow it. 5mm isn't that much, it should come with a little patience and thoughtful application of force.
peripatetic is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 08:19 AM
  #3  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
thanks, I just re-read sheldon's method - it doesn't look too difficult but I will have to be careful. Rear spacing is 120mm. My plan is to move each side ~2mm and check spacing.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 08:41 AM
  #4  
reverborama's Avatar
Broom Wagon Fodder
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 64
From: Minnesota

Bikes: Fuji Supreme; Kona Wo; Nashbar road frame custom build; Schwinn Varsity; Nishiki International; Schwinn Premis, Falcon Merckx, American Flyer muscle bike, Motobecane Mulekick

I went out and bought the Park tools for this and although they are expensive, I've cold set and realigned enough frames that I think it was worth it. You can certainly make your own without too much trouble, though.

Before you get all bendy on the frame, do the math.

1. Determine how far off you are from the correct spacing
2. Determine how far to move each side
3. Cold set it

1 is pretty easy. If the spacing should be 120 and it's 123 you are off by 3 mm.
2 Requires string or a gauge. If the dropouts centered 5 mm to the left of center then you need to move the left side in 4mm and the right side out 1mm.

So rather than just going from 123 to 120 and then trying to center it, which will usually involve more bending, just figure it out in advance and bend it once.

Hex wrenches make great measuring devices.

I strap a 2x4 to the rear triangle as a pivot to keep from putting too much stress on the brake and chainstay cross pieces.

And when you are done, don't forget to realign the dropouts!
reverborama is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 09:09 AM
  #5  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
okay... I went out and measured the spacing, the rear fork ends are 115mm apart. My rear hub spacing is 120mm. Using a string, the left rear side measures 28mm left of center (@seat tube), the right side is 33mm. So, if I increase (cold set) the left side 5mm, I will have ~120 spacing, and a ~33mm string gap both left and right of center, correct?
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 09:23 AM
  #6  
John E's Avatar
feros ferio
25 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 22,398
Likes: 1,865
From: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Originally Posted by norskagent
okay... I went out and measured the spacing, the rear fork ends are 115mm apart. My rear hub spacing is 120mm. Using a string, the left rear side measures 28mm left of center (@seat tube), the right side is 33mm. So, if I increase (cold set) the left side 5mm, I will have ~120 spacing, and a ~33mm string gap both left and right of center, correct?
Yes. I would not hesitate to attempt this myself.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 10:27 AM
  #7  
JohnDThompson's Avatar
Old fart
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
Community Builder
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,348
Likes: 5,256
From: Appleton WI

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Don't forget that a 5mm difference in string measurement actually represents only 2.5mm misalignment!
JohnDThompson is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 10:41 AM
  #8  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
But I need to cold set only the left side, the full 5mm outward, correct? Then, my rear spacing will increase from 115 to 120, and the left string gap will increase from 128 to 133, matching the right string gap at 133. Please stop me if that isn't right!
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 06:01 PM
  #9  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
I did it, using a long peice of lumber - it's not that bad. Now my rear spacing is 120, and I got ~32-33 on each side using the string. I didn't re-align the dropouts, I figured the clamping to the hub would "align" them. I test rode it slowly and it tracks much straighter. Probably not perfect but it's better than it was. Tomorrow I will be able to tell more/better on my commute to work and back.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 06:18 PM
  #10  
noglider's Avatar
aka Tom Reingold
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,172
Likes: 6,404
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Clamping to the hub does align the dropouts, but it puts bending pressure on the axle. If the alignment is very bad, it can cause the axle to bend or even break. Check your dropout alignment.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 06:28 PM
  #11  
redxj's Avatar
N+1
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,310
Likes: 8
From: Ann Arbor, MI

Bikes: A few

The tire not being hidden by the downtube could indicate your fork is slightly bent as well.
redxj is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 07:34 PM
  #12  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
I had the front fork alignment tweaked and trued w/ an alignment tool at my lbs several months ago. I will have the dropouts checked though, easy enough.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 07:48 PM
  #13  
Bam42685's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
From: Big Rapids, MI

Bikes: 81 or 82 Mayata 912, Mystery Peugeot

How do you align the dropouts? I used the article on Sheldon's site and it just says "there is no good home tool." This could spin into a new thread as I have several rear triangle questions and pictures.
Bam42685 is offline  
Reply
Old 06-30-09 | 08:15 PM
  #14  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
I had a geared road bike dropouts aligned at my lbs, they used a simple tool and bent them straight pretty quick. Not sure if it's the same with track dropouts but I will find out soon.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 08:00 AM
  #15  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
well after this mornings commute I could tell it's still ~slightly~ off but way better than it was. I don't plan on tweaking it further though, it is barely noticable. It seems that njs rear spacing is 110mm, possibly the reason my bike was spaced ~115mm, after being ridden for years w/ a 120mm spaced hub?
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 10:47 AM
  #16  
Iowegian's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,812
Likes: 23
From: Boulder, Colo
Originally Posted by Bam42685
How do you align the dropouts? I used the article on Sheldon's site and it just says "there is no good home tool." This could spin into a new thread as I have several rear triangle questions and pictures.

https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=40
Iowegian is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 10:58 AM
  #17  
miamijim's Avatar
Senior Member
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,973
Likes: 145
From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by norskagent
well after this mornings commute I could tell it's still ~slightly~ off but way better than it was. I don't plan on tweaking it further though, it is barely noticable. It seems that njs rear spacing is 110mm, possibly the reason my bike was spaced ~115mm, after being ridden for years w/ a 120mm spaced hub?
There are some many variables that come into play, wheel dish, fork alignent both lateraly and front to back as well as single single leg invlovement, fork end alignment with good blade alignment, rear triangle, rear dropout and it s possible to have the entire front triangle twisted.

IIRC modern pro track riders have bikes that naturaly track to the left to aid in turning.

Hows your wheel dish?
miamijim is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 11:13 AM
  #18  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
My bike tracks to the right, must be a rare, "reverse" track model! Wheel dish is very close, I built them and used a campy dishing tool front and rear. I checked the string thing again, it's about 2mm off now. So many variables as you said - I'm going to just ride it now.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 11:24 AM
  #19  
peripatetic's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,124
Likes: 2
From: NYC

Bikes: All 70s and 80s, only steel.

Originally Posted by reverborama
...
So rather than just going from 123 to 120 and then trying to center it, which will usually involve more bending, just figure it out in advance and bend it once.

Good tip. Better than my crude approach.


Originally Posted by reverborama
Hex wrenches make great measuring devices.
Can you explain this, or maybe post a pic? Do you mean using the end of the wrench for small distance measurements?
peripatetic is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 11:33 AM
  #20  
miamijim's Avatar
Senior Member
Sheldon Brown Memorial - Donating
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,973
Likes: 145
From: Tampa, Florida
Originally Posted by peripatetic
Can you explain this, or maybe post a pic? Do you mean using the end of the wrench for small distance measurements?
Slide a 3, 4, 5mm or whatever size allen key between the string and frame. Its and easy way to measure 1mm increments.
miamijim is offline  
Reply
Old 07-01-09 | 11:33 AM
  #21  
norskagent's Avatar
Thread Starter
car dodger
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 152
From: garner/raleigh nc
I wasn't skilled enough to bend once, I spread the frame (left side mostly) in 3 or 4 small increments - I was afraid of overbending so I worked up to my final result without going over.
__________________
1989 Schwinn Paramount OS
1980 Mclean/Silk Hope Sport Touring
1983 Bianchi pista
1976 Fuji Feather track
1979 raleigh track
"I've consulted my sources and I'm pretty sure your derailleur does not exist"
norskagent is offline  
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.