Tubulars
 

Does anyone know where i can find a pair of 27 inch tubulars? My local bike shops dont know where to find them.:(:(:(:(:bang:

There is no such thing. Tubulars rims are the same diameter as 700c clinchers. Sometimes these are referred to as 27" to distinguish them from smaller, ie 24", tubulars.

27" tubulars? I do not think I ever heard of them. most road tubulars are 700c or 650c what kind of bike do you have?

All "regular" sized tubulars are 700c, or if you are talking to an Italian, 28". If your rims are for tubular tires, buy any 700c, they will work.

What everyone else said. This is from Sheldon Brown's website:

Full-sized tubulars fit rims of the same diameter as 622 mm (700c) clinchers. This size is sometimes referred to as "28 inch" or "700". It is also, confusingly, sometimes referred to as "27 inch." The "27 inch" designation is inaccurate and obsolete, but you'll sometimes run into it in older printed material.

In clincher tires, there is a real difference between "700c" and "27 inch" sizes, but for tubulars this is a false distinction. Whenever you see mention of "27 inch tubulars" the writer is actually referring to standard full-sized tubulars, as used on most racing bikes.

OK! Thanks for the info.the stat sheet i was looking at said 27 inch wheels with tubular tires.They are going on a p-13 Paramount.

What bike?

P-13 Paramount 1973

I think you need a new LBS

Or maybe just an old mechanic... :innocent:

I bought a tubular and glue tube at Performance one time and the look on the cashier's face was priceless. You could tell he wanted to say "wtf is this?" but was afraid of looking stupid.

Took your advice and found an old bike shop with an old owner.Tires are on the way.Thanks to all for the info.

Seeing as this is a tubular thread, and you did ask where to buy them - the best place I've found for "cheap" tubulars if there is such a thing is from Yellow Jersey $19.95 for one, or 3 for $50 (they also import the Panasonic frames from Japan, and carry the old cleats, and shoes to accept them, etc.). I have a nice set of tubular rims (seeing as I've never ridden tubular's, are they worth getting???). I bought them for the hubs, and the off chance that I might want to get some tubular tires for them.

The Yellow Jersey house brand tubulars are fine. Some people have reported problems with lumpy casings and such but most reports are positive.

I just tried to buy tubular glue around here - no one carries it. I guess I bought the last tubes they had a while ago. They all want to sell me Tufo tape @ $15 per. Not gonna' happen.

And even FasTack doesn't appear to be an in-stock item at the box stores. Guess I'll have to go to an auto-body paint retailer.

Anyone tried the narrow Gorilla tape? I may have to stick it on a worn-out tire just to see how sticky it is.

If you want to just give tubulars a try, there's no better deal than the YJ tires. Since you have a set tubular wheels built, you have a great opportunity. They are not the best tires, but there's nothing wrong with them. They go on much streighter than cheap tires did, 10 years ago. They even feel decent at the outset. I weigh about 180 and run the YJ tires at 95 to 105 psi.

Thanks for the info. I had asked a LBS about them and he said that those who ride them choose not to ride anything else, but that they were not very utilitarian. I wasn't quite certain what he meant, so I let it drop and his prices vs what I remembered seeing on YJ encouraged me to let it drop further.

Do they ride faster, accelerate and decelerate quicker, have more cushion or some other quantifiable advantage over that of clinchers?

The wheels I have are not exactly built up. I still need to get a 5 speed english freewheel in addition to glue and tubulars. I still keep an eye out for the fw though - just in case.

I can't remember the name of the place right now but there's a seller in NYC and you can get the Hi-temp Tufo rim tape for under $8 a box and they ship priority mail.

They make the bike feel lighter and quicker, and kind of a feeling of zipping over the road. Some tests have shown they do not have better rolling resistance than the best clinchers, at least for road tires. Track tires are presumably more efficient, but are designed for the track, and will not last long on real road pavement. Ride can be harsh if tire pressure is too high. The cross section is nearly a perfect circle, giving very consistent bike control over all lean angles. No pinch flats or blow-offs.

If the rims are laced, tensioned, trued, and stress-relieved correctly, the wheels are Damned Near Done (DND). If the locknut to locknut spacing is 126 mm or more, you can use a 6 or 7 speed freewheel, which are much easier to find than 5s.

Flat tires on the road can be dealt with by using a sealant, and by carrying an entire spare tubular tire. Changing the tire can be less than 5 minutes work. The flatted tire is repaired at home or sent out to a specialist, such as www.tirealert.com.

If your wheels are built, tensioned, trued, and stress-relieved properly, a tubular wheel is just as strong (at least) as racing clincher wheels.

The Yellow Jersey tires are good up to perhaps 125 psi and are about 21.5 mm wide when at pressure. Tubulars in general are available in widths of 20, 21.5, 23, 24, 25, and 27 mm, for the road. 24, 25, and 27 are usually for harsh distance races like Paris-Roubaix and other Classics. 23 mm tires are often thought of as training tires.

Stronger, actually, since tubular rims don't have the unbraced sidewall to hold the tire in place.

.....and they are much stiffer in torsion.

You can use a Suntour Ultra-6 freewheel if you find one. (I probably have a used one somewhere). It's 6 speed spaced for 5-speed dropouts. Or convert the axle to 126 and run a 6 speed or Ultra-7 (I have a bunch or them, loved 'em in the '80s. The aluminum bodied ones were pretty light).

I think you'll need a slightly narrower chain than a stock 5-speed if you go with ultra-6 or 7

Patching sewups is at best a pain. The Yellow Jersey website gives an excellent description IIRC if not, just google for it and there will be an abundance. I'm in the same state as TireAlert.com so turnaround is quick.

The combination of sewup tire and rim will almost always weigh substantially less than a clincher tire, tube and rim. It will also ride smoother and tolerate a lower pressure for a given size and also accept a higher pressure if that's needed - like you're racing, really racing with an entry fee and numbers and stuff. ATMO, for JRA and training, etc, let out a few pounds and enjoy the ride. They are almost impossible to pinch flat. In cyclocross we figure the optimal pressure is the one that only bottoms out once or twice a lap. When they do go flat you can ride them a bit without completely destroying the rim or tire. This isn't usually a factor, just nice to know you can pedal til you get off the road.

Changing out a flat, you really want a spare, just peel off the flat and wrap the spare into place. This is a perfect job for used tires, the old glue will bond somewhat under the pressure. You do want to take it easy on corners and curbs until you've gotten it properly reglued back at home.

I likes 'em. And conventional build tubular wheelsets are available at surprisingly low prices. Less so now that a cyclocross is catching on the way it is, but there are still bargains on anything that isn't carbon or super-aero.

+1 - or a shop with a young mechanic schooled in the ways and means of C&V.

-Kurt

I was patching one the other night and my wife said "nobody uses sew-ups anymore". I chuckled because she was making home-made bread. Now you can say home made bread is better or cheaper or healthier or whatever you want, but the only real reason to do it is because you like doing it and you appreciate the art and the process and the culture of doing it and the same can be said for tubulars.

It's really surprising how many workers at Performance and other bike shops do not know much about older bikes and their parts,.
I recently asked about 144 BCD chainrings at a respectable bike shop and I got very puzzled stares......Uhhhmmm BCD?? what's that???........144???..........Oh,...you mean 130 right???...144???!!
Latex tubes???? who uses those????......
Next thing you know they won't even know what a crank puller is for, but I guess time marches on and you can't really blame them.

Chombi
84 Peugeot PSV

Agree some bike shops really need to get experienced people.
Some seem to be completely clueless. I was at Alger (28th st) the other day looking at a tubular, (had it in my hand, in the box from right off the shelf where two others were) Knowing that they have more stock in back, I asked a salesman if they had any other tubulars. He said behind the counter, then walked over to the tubes, and asked what size I needed. I said, 'no I mean tubular tires, like these' and handed him the box, he took it, looked at it and said "we don't carry those"

Ken.

Although I am a long time user of tubulars (40 years) and appreciate all the advantages they still provide over even the best modern clinchers, I don't think I would advise an inexperienced person to use them. The OP already has a set of tubular wheels on his vintage paramount, but unless he really wants to keep the bike authentically original, I would probably opt to rebuild it with modern lightweight 700c boxed hooked rim clincher rims, and install one of the better foldable "open tubular" clinchers that are currently available like The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX, which are available in both 700 x 23 and 700 x 25 sizes, and can be safely inflated up to 150 psi. My experience with these tires is that they provide a very smooth tubular-like ride, and are quite relaible as well. If you use tubulars, you have to carry a bulky tubular as a spare and it can be very difficult to remove the flatted one out on the road if it was glued on too well. Also, most shops do not do a good job gluing on tubulars and often make a real mess. Glue tape like TUFO often works too well, such that the tire is often nearly impossible to remove, and is often ruined in doing so, because the base tape on the tire is ripped off and the glue tape remains stuck to the rim. I live in a major metropolitan area (DFW) with dozens of bike shops, but there is only one shop that is 60 miles away and that has only one mechanic who is competent at mounting tubular tires (he has a UCI professional mechanic certification). I'm happy to pay him $10 to mount a racing tire, because it is so tight that I can't physically get it on even after extensive stretching on a rim beforehand without making a mess. Cheap tubulars offer no advantage over good clinchers and are often lumpy to the point that you might think you're about to get a blowout. So I only use high end tubulars, such as Veloflex on my C&V bikes. If I do flat one of them, then I will repair it myself, since I have the proper tools and expertise to do so, however, an inexperienced person would probably have to send it out, incurring further cost of ownership. Anyway, just my perspective.

Tejano, in my post in this thread (#19), I told him realistically that if he wants to try them, why not? At this point it's a $60 investment for three YJ tires and some glue. If he likes them and is willing to deal with the ways that they are different, why should he not do that? Nobody said he should use them exclusively, or to make a major monetary commitment, not even the ones implicit in your advice. Converting those wheels to clincher is much more expensive than trying out tubulars.

BTW, how's Mellow Johnny's on tubulars? When I lived up near Coit Road, I stopped into Richardson Cycles and was not impressed, in terms of vintage savvy. Back to DIY! But this was 20 years ago.

I do agree that it isn't realistic to expect most LBS, especially big corporate shops, to deal with them competently, but aren't bikes really DIY transportation? Mine are, at least, and always have been.

Plus, I feel you are being too negative about the potential problems one might have with tubulars. I've used them extensively over the past 40 or so years as well, and I just don't think those horror stories are a regular occurrence.

Great Blog! I graduated from Mt. Diablo H.S. in 1977, sadly I only rode up Diablo three times.