What would you do with this Centurion Mixte?
09-06-09, 12:33 AM
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What would you do with this Centurion Mixte?
I just bought a Centurion Accordo Mixte, with a Chromalloy frame, hi-ten lateral stays, Suntour DRs, fairly decent paint, and nice Araya alloy wheels for $20 (plus about $10 in gas).
I had planned to fix it up and flip it, but I did not look at it so closely when I bought it. I now see it needs the following:
2 Tires__ $18.00
2 Tubes__ $ 5.00
Bottom Bracket__ $24.00
Bar tape__ $8.00
Skewers __ $10.00 (Items badly rusted.)
Cables/Hsg __ $7.00
Pedals__ $0.00 (I have to throw in a nicer pair to make it presentable)
Saddle__ $ 0.00 (I’ll throw one in to replace the huge comfort gel seat)
Brake shoes __ $6.00
Shipping for above __$12.00
Tax on above__ $5.00
So the total for everything comes to about $125.
I have no hope of selling it for 125, even though it would be a very nice rider when it is rebuilt with all new bearings, tuned, etc.
I might get $100 for it – but more likely 50, being a Mixte with a slightly esoteric name.
Alternatively, I could part it out.
That seems a little reprehensible: I always try to SAVE a bike if I can - but practically speaking, I already know I will lose $25- $75 on it (and much more, if I added cool Nitto bars, DT Shifters, Fenders and a Brooks)!
- Just curious - What would YOU do?
I had planned to fix it up and flip it, but I did not look at it so closely when I bought it. I now see it needs the following:
2 Tires__ $18.00
2 Tubes__ $ 5.00
Bottom Bracket__ $24.00
Bar tape__ $8.00
Skewers __ $10.00 (Items badly rusted.)
Cables/Hsg __ $7.00
Pedals__ $0.00 (I have to throw in a nicer pair to make it presentable)
Saddle__ $ 0.00 (I’ll throw one in to replace the huge comfort gel seat)
Brake shoes __ $6.00
Shipping for above __$12.00
Tax on above__ $5.00
So the total for everything comes to about $125.
I have no hope of selling it for 125, even though it would be a very nice rider when it is rebuilt with all new bearings, tuned, etc.
I might get $100 for it – but more likely 50, being a Mixte with a slightly esoteric name.
Alternatively, I could part it out.
That seems a little reprehensible: I always try to SAVE a bike if I can - but practically speaking, I already know I will lose $25- $75 on it (and much more, if I added cool Nitto bars, DT Shifters, Fenders and a Brooks)!
- Just curious - What would YOU do?
09-06-09, 05:23 AM
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Tires and tubes are the basic starting point. From there I'd try to make the rest work as best you can. Thats a nice quality bike with alloy wheels. $150 range would seem reasonable asking price. Dont overdo it. Make it look presentable and see if you have any takers.
09-06-09, 05:36 AM
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I would do better shopping for supplies. I buy tires for $5 each, tubes for $2 each, cables and housings for less than $4, bottom bracket for around $10, brake pads for $2. Add $10 shipping. And no tax.
If you are going to flip bikes, you need to find low cost sources for parts and buy in quantities.
Most of the parts above are from Niagara. I usually get tubes from pricepoint.com.
I bought my mixte below as a frameset. But almost all of the parts to complete it came from a donor bike: derailleurs, crankset, handlebars, stem, bottom bracket, freewheel, chain, seat, pedals, etc. Wheelset came from another donor. So I have about $45 into it, including the cost of the donor bike.
If you are going to flip bikes, you need to find low cost sources for parts and buy in quantities.
Most of the parts above are from Niagara. I usually get tubes from pricepoint.com.
I bought my mixte below as a frameset. But almost all of the parts to complete it came from a donor bike: derailleurs, crankset, handlebars, stem, bottom bracket, freewheel, chain, seat, pedals, etc. Wheelset came from another donor. So I have about $45 into it, including the cost of the donor bike.
09-06-09, 08:02 AM
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Hi Wrk101 -
I have been shopping Niagara and the prices are low, but I can't find any prices quite like that for tires.
- Are you buying TIRES in bulk qty's? - I've not explored that yet but I don't think I could afford it, given all the different sizes.
You are right that if I went the donor bike route, I could get the costs down significantly - but whenever I go to buy a parts bike, I always want to restore it, regardless of its condition -which may explain why, after doing the math (a bit belatedly) I find that I have not really made money on flips.
I find it very hard to sell a woman's road bike - and most of the MEN's bikes I've flipped have gone for around $140, and cost me almost that much to resurrect. (E.g., See pix of my Fuji Sagres, Miyata Sport, and Raleigh Marathon $140 flips below).
I mind that -it's a hobby and not a business, but I don't like to LOSE money either.
(BTW Your $45 Mixte is a beauty - but I know I'll have to go a lot deeper than that if I finish this one, unless I do find the right donor bike (with a bent frame, that I can't straighten!)).
I have been shopping Niagara and the prices are low, but I can't find any prices quite like that for tires.
- Are you buying TIRES in bulk qty's? - I've not explored that yet but I don't think I could afford it, given all the different sizes.
You are right that if I went the donor bike route, I could get the costs down significantly - but whenever I go to buy a parts bike, I always want to restore it, regardless of its condition -which may explain why, after doing the math (a bit belatedly) I find that I have not really made money on flips.
I find it very hard to sell a woman's road bike - and most of the MEN's bikes I've flipped have gone for around $140, and cost me almost that much to resurrect. (E.g., See pix of my Fuji Sagres, Miyata Sport, and Raleigh Marathon $140 flips below).
I mind that -it's a hobby and not a business, but I don't like to LOSE money either.
(BTW Your $45 Mixte is a beauty - but I know I'll have to go a lot deeper than that if I finish this one, unless I do find the right donor bike (with a bent frame, that I can't straighten!)).
09-06-09, 08:30 AM
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Hi A. Winthrop -
Thanks for the advice and the links - but I think you would agree there aren't too many corners I could cut, if you could see the condition of the pedals and skewers, heard the noise in the BB crank, or saw how truly hideous the HUGE, blue, gooshy gel seat was. (I had to put it in a brown paper bag so the garbage men wouldn't get offended by it).
- I may salvage the Accordo anyway, but maybe first I'll start work on my own Raleigh Super Course (which I've been putting off in the interest of completing my flips).
PS- Mine does look exactly like the picture in Sheldon's 84 catalog scan.
Thanks for the advice and the links - but I think you would agree there aren't too many corners I could cut, if you could see the condition of the pedals and skewers, heard the noise in the BB crank, or saw how truly hideous the HUGE, blue, gooshy gel seat was. (I had to put it in a brown paper bag so the garbage men wouldn't get offended by it).
- I may salvage the Accordo anyway, but maybe first I'll start work on my own Raleigh Super Course (which I've been putting off in the interest of completing my flips).
PS- Mine does look exactly like the picture in Sheldon's 84 catalog scan.
09-06-09, 08:32 AM
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70psi 27" tire at Niagara for $5.05
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=12257
https://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ducts_id=12257
09-06-09, 08:36 AM
#8
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That fully rebuilt sagres is worth $100 just for your labor, add $100 to $125 for the bike itself and the new parts. Easily a $225 bike, you just have to brand it that way. No reason to compete with the pricing of unrestored bikes selling on cl. Yours is restored, that's a different thing. They can buy the other $140 bike and spend $150 at a shop getting it ready, or buy yours and ride.
A little more confidence in the value of your work will result in a bit of profit.
Also, buying smart. And you don't need to feel bad taking parts off a donor bike. Doesn't mean it can't be rebuilt down the line. But you can only do one project at a time, and if you've got a bike in the garage that has parts you need for the one you're building, take them and write it an IOU. Some day you'll run across a few ridiculously cheap, and one will have a bent fork, and you'll be able to pay it back without too much stress.
A little more confidence in the value of your work will result in a bit of profit.
Also, buying smart. And you don't need to feel bad taking parts off a donor bike. Doesn't mean it can't be rebuilt down the line. But you can only do one project at a time, and if you've got a bike in the garage that has parts you need for the one you're building, take them and write it an IOU. Some day you'll run across a few ridiculously cheap, and one will have a bent fork, and you'll be able to pay it back without too much stress.
09-06-09, 09:03 AM
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Also, a $25 (cartridge?) bottom bracket is out of bounds for a $140 bike. You need to find yourself some bikes real cheap that you can strip for bottom brackets and parts like that. Are you sure the original bb was worn, or was it just gunked up? I have a bunch of new bbs that I'm not going to use. They're square taper, 113mm and 118mm, 5 of each, and install with the shimano tool. NOT cartridge. I bought the wrong ones, which is why I won't use them. They're ball bearing, but everything is included. They say "cartridge type," which is how I made the mistake when ordering from the catalog. You need the shimano bb tool, and a lockring tool, because they're a cup and spindle setup, and adjust conventionally. I'll sell them to you for less than I paid for them, plus shipping. I'll pm you.
Again, about borrowing. If you ever want to build up the frame you borrowed from, you can always pay it back later with parts from the next bike, and parts get passed down the line, so you always have a donor or two around, even if they're next on the rack getting donations. To do this though, you have to get past the questions about whether you should even be flipping at all. You can do a great job, but you also have to be able to sell it for what its worth afterwards. Don't shortchange yourself. Take good pictures and put them on craigslist or any other local classifieds. Describe everything that has been done to it, and don't necessarily take the first customer that comes along looking for a "cheap" bike through a mutual friend. In fact, avoid the word cheap altogether, its a red flag. Best way to duck a cheap customer is say, "yes, I can build you a bike, but my bikes start at around $180 fully rebuilt, and go up from there." Some people will see that a fully rebuilt bike at that price is a great deal. Then you're working with the right people. They're out there, more than you imagine. Sometimes they just want something vintage over something new, but they want it to WORK.
Again, about borrowing. If you ever want to build up the frame you borrowed from, you can always pay it back later with parts from the next bike, and parts get passed down the line, so you always have a donor or two around, even if they're next on the rack getting donations. To do this though, you have to get past the questions about whether you should even be flipping at all. You can do a great job, but you also have to be able to sell it for what its worth afterwards. Don't shortchange yourself. Take good pictures and put them on craigslist or any other local classifieds. Describe everything that has been done to it, and don't necessarily take the first customer that comes along looking for a "cheap" bike through a mutual friend. In fact, avoid the word cheap altogether, its a red flag. Best way to duck a cheap customer is say, "yes, I can build you a bike, but my bikes start at around $180 fully rebuilt, and go up from there." Some people will see that a fully rebuilt bike at that price is a great deal. Then you're working with the right people. They're out there, more than you imagine. Sometimes they just want something vintage over something new, but they want it to WORK.
Last edited by krems81; 09-06-09 at 09:39 AM.
09-06-09, 10:02 AM
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Hi Krems81
- I appreciate your advice. This is my 1st year flipping, and it also marks my return to cycling after about 25 years.
What you say has the mark of experience, and I must admit the comments about pricing ring true (some of my purchasers did seem a little surprised that the bikes I've sold were so nice.) So I won't lower my standards but I may raise my prices.
I think too, I need to be a tad more judicious about what I take on - I have had a couple $90 bikes that I've done major repairs on, and even installed Panaracer Tourguards to flip.
Regarding the Centurion's BB, I am sure it is toast. It's wobbly and making awful grinding noises. I appreciate your offer to sell a bb but the size is (68x125), and even though I know I could get it cheaper, removing the unusual looking old cup requires a tool that I don't have, so I can either buy a tool (that I might use once) or support my LBS.
- I appreciate your advice. This is my 1st year flipping, and it also marks my return to cycling after about 25 years.
What you say has the mark of experience, and I must admit the comments about pricing ring true (some of my purchasers did seem a little surprised that the bikes I've sold were so nice.) So I won't lower my standards but I may raise my prices.
I think too, I need to be a tad more judicious about what I take on - I have had a couple $90 bikes that I've done major repairs on, and even installed Panaracer Tourguards to flip.
Regarding the Centurion's BB, I am sure it is toast. It's wobbly and making awful grinding noises. I appreciate your offer to sell a bb but the size is (68x125), and even though I know I could get it cheaper, removing the unusual looking old cup requires a tool that I don't have, so I can either buy a tool (that I might use once) or support my LBS.
09-06-09, 10:26 AM
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Too bad it's not a Bridgestone and you're not in Boston. Reportedly, Bridgestone mixtes are going for $225 in that region.
09-06-09, 10:52 AM
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You could always sell the frame alone to RobbieTunes for a decent price. The last frame I shipped was $15 because I cut the box to fit. I hear he's looking for a Centurion mixte...
09-06-09, 11:03 AM
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Sounds like you really don't want to mess with it, sell it on Craigslist for $30. Find a different project to work on.
09-06-09, 04:37 PM
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Hi Krems81
Regarding the Centurion's BB, I am sure it is toast. It's wobbly and making awful grinding noises. I appreciate your offer to sell a bb but the size is (68x125), and even though I know I could get it cheaper, removing the unusual looking old cup requires a tool that I don't have, so I can either buy a tool (that I might use once) or support my LBS.
Regarding the Centurion's BB, I am sure it is toast. It's wobbly and making awful grinding noises. I appreciate your offer to sell a bb but the size is (68x125), and even though I know I could get it cheaper, removing the unusual looking old cup requires a tool that I don't have, so I can either buy a tool (that I might use once) or support my LBS.
Niagara sells a replacement cup set for a little over $3.....
+1 You sold that Fuji too cheap.
09-06-09, 04:54 PM
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Auchencrow, I'm really glad I could help a bit. I've been rebuilding and selling custom bikes for about a year and a half now, and it is my primary source of income at the moment. I almost opened an all-vintage shop in Chicago this spring (vintage, with a focus on new hand built wheels as well, that is). It hasn't happened yet, but still might in the future.
The work of restoring a bike makes it quite a bit more valuable than what its worth in unrestored condition. As long as you remember that, you'll be alright.
Lately, my average bike sells for around $450, with a few powdercoated numbers with custom built wheels topping $600. The market is healthy here. I also do my homework, and it sounds like you are doing that too. I put about $300 into each $450 bike I sell. They always have new wheels (I use cartridge bearing hubs most often), new tires, bottom bracket, tape, freewheel, mks pedals, seatpost, saddle, etc. People will pay $450 in chicago for a reliable custom built vintage bike, because they use it for daily transportation. Imagine what people go through (and pay the LBS) to get their bikes working after buying them unrestored with dry grease everywhere. Make sure people know what they are getting: the time and detail put into rebuilding the bike right, so they can rely on it.
Finally, here's a little link to my blog, with photos of some of the bikes and wheels I've built: https://cogcycles.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/intro/
Feel free to contact me any time you like with questions about how to deal with a customer, value of parts, or mechanical questions. I know there are folk on here who can answer most of those questions as well as or better than me, but its nice to have a resource you can turn to now and again, knowing you have similar perspectives on certain things, and similar challenges.
Cheers,
Brian
The work of restoring a bike makes it quite a bit more valuable than what its worth in unrestored condition. As long as you remember that, you'll be alright.
Lately, my average bike sells for around $450, with a few powdercoated numbers with custom built wheels topping $600. The market is healthy here. I also do my homework, and it sounds like you are doing that too. I put about $300 into each $450 bike I sell. They always have new wheels (I use cartridge bearing hubs most often), new tires, bottom bracket, tape, freewheel, mks pedals, seatpost, saddle, etc. People will pay $450 in chicago for a reliable custom built vintage bike, because they use it for daily transportation. Imagine what people go through (and pay the LBS) to get their bikes working after buying them unrestored with dry grease everywhere. Make sure people know what they are getting: the time and detail put into rebuilding the bike right, so they can rely on it.
Finally, here's a little link to my blog, with photos of some of the bikes and wheels I've built: https://cogcycles.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/intro/
Feel free to contact me any time you like with questions about how to deal with a customer, value of parts, or mechanical questions. I know there are folk on here who can answer most of those questions as well as or better than me, but its nice to have a resource you can turn to now and again, knowing you have similar perspectives on certain things, and similar challenges.
Cheers,
Brian
Last edited by krems81; 09-06-09 at 05:18 PM.
09-06-09, 06:46 PM
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Hi again Krems81 –
Thank you sincerely – I will take your advice and keep that old Mixte around for when opportunity knocks. It pays to bounce things off others with more experience, and based on the level of your commitment to “the craft”, (AKA “flipping”) you are a good one to know.
Also I saw your blog. Impressive. And I hope that you soon get to open that vintage shop you’re angling for. ( I think when the economy picks up, you will -and the Market will be ripe for you.)
Regards,
A.
Thank you sincerely – I will take your advice and keep that old Mixte around for when opportunity knocks. It pays to bounce things off others with more experience, and based on the level of your commitment to “the craft”, (AKA “flipping”) you are a good one to know.
Also I saw your blog. Impressive. And I hope that you soon get to open that vintage shop you’re angling for. ( I think when the economy picks up, you will -and the Market will be ripe for you.)
Regards,
A.
09-06-09, 06:55 PM
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I'm taking your advice as well, and am now on Niagara's site shopping for the right sort of tool. (The one I had is wrong.) - And now that my attention is shifted to resurrecting my old Raleigh Super Course, I'll probably need one before I'm through!
(I've only just started looking at it, and have already encountered a mystery - but that is the topic for another post.)
Thanks again!
A.
09-06-09, 06:58 PM
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I'd keep a Mixte - bound to sell it for a decent price sometime. I've restored bikes and had to hold on to them for a year or two before they'd sell. The market changes all the time - what's not "in" right now might be in a year. Though Mixte's and single speed/fixies always seem to sell. Could just be your area. Anyway, I'd hold on to it. Nice mixtes aren't getting any easier to find, and.....this forum has lots of examples of what some guys can do with those things!
09-06-09, 07:04 PM
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Hi RobbieTunes !
- Sorry I didn't take the hint. I'm going with Krems81's advice instead, and will (sooner or later) bring this thing back to life. - And If I do make a few extra bucks on my future flips, I may even invest in those Nittos, Fenders and Brooks for it as well. - It does have good potential - even as you obviously have recognized before me. Good luck in your search.
Regards,
A.
- Sorry I didn't take the hint. I'm going with Krems81's advice instead, and will (sooner or later) bring this thing back to life. - And If I do make a few extra bucks on my future flips, I may even invest in those Nittos, Fenders and Brooks for it as well. - It does have good potential - even as you obviously have recognized before me. Good luck in your search.
Regards,
A.
09-06-09, 07:06 PM
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I'd keep a Mixte - bound to sell it for a decent price sometime. I've restored bikes and had to hold on to them for a year or two before they'd sell. The market changes all the time - what's not "in" right now might be in a year. Though Mixte's and single speed/fixies always seem to sell. Could just be your area. Anyway, I'd hold on to it. Nice mixtes aren't getting any easier to find, and.....this forum has lots of examples of what some guys can do with those things!
Thanks bikemeister.
09-06-09, 07:16 PM
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Good luck on it. Sometimes, other folks' interest in a bike you have is just the type of feedback you're looking for.
Glad I could help in an indirect way, aaargh! If you do decided to get rid of it, um, um, ....
Glad I could help in an indirect way, aaargh! If you do decided to get rid of it, um, um, ....
09-06-09, 07:55 PM
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You gonna eat that?
I'd take pictures of it and submit it to The Mixte Gallery (link in my sig 
)
)
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