We are certainly addicted to cheap products. So, yeah, a $400 bike will not displace completely the $99 Wallyworld special. But, people are not dumb. Some will recognize its value. I think it would sell just fine.

Lets let gas prices cycle back up for a couple of more summers and see what people think of such a bike.

jim

One upside to the garish or flamboyant colors of modern 'kits' is visibility. I, too, prefer subdued colors, but I've found myself buying wool jerseys in yellow and orange recently...and I ride with a yellow helmet. My anti-lycra ride buddies laugh at me, but I'll take it if it increases my visibility even marginally.

On the other hand, if an irrate driver associates me with a group of roadies who failed to yield or blew a red ...

+1. It's not the kids' fault; it's their parents. For a look at what some people used to consider a fun childhood (around the time the bike was invented), I highly recommend Dan Beard's The American Boy's Handy Book. (There's an American Girl's Handy Book, too, but it's not so big on adventure. Funny, that.) Fire, knives, unsupervised camping...all the good stuff. I teach college freshmen, and I can say that while most of them are really nice, they've largely been prevented from thinking or acting for themselves. Still, I see a few kids biking around my neighborhood on their own (with helmets, but still) pretty regularly. I hope to see some more.

Agree. There's a tradeoff between functional and off putting (at least to the uninitiated). I never thought I'd wear cycling pants, but the padding and the lower air resistance are more important to me than the appearance. I don't want to wear day glow lime, but it IS highly visible.

Hmmm...interesting...cycling is alive and well here in Colorado Springs. There are miles of trails, the roads are good and motorists are generally friendly, and there are several fantastic mountain biking areas right in the middle of town. Generally though you don't see a lot of young kids. On the road it's mostly adults, young and old. Maybe a few more teenagers on mountain bikes. Lot's of families with children on the MUPs. There is even a family of 5 that rides a five person bike around town all in matching cycling kit. Probably helps that the USOC and Carmichael Training Systems is here in town. I'd almost say this is cycling paradise but the guys up the road in Denver and Boulder would claim their own backyards for that esteemed location.

BOO YA! Here you go Jim:

Schiwnn Coffee: $429.99
-3sp IGH
-aluminum rims
-north road bars
-steel frame
-no suspension
-big slick tires
-BONUS, fenders, rack chainguard



The "Willy" comes in at 399.99, the main difference is the 7 speed rear derailleur:

Alright. Now market those things right, and we might have something.

As far as I am concerned I would just clean up an old Huffy or Columbia or Hercules for $15, but I think these bikes have legs if they put them out there the right way.

And, to return to the point of the OP: I think the re-emergence of bikes like this after a couple of decades' absence speaks directly to the fact that cycling is not quite dead.

jim

The 3-speed Coffee and Willy are often sold out and no eta for new shipments. Single speed Coffee's is what most people see at an LBS, if they carry the Schwinn brand.

If Schwinn or some other company can add a 7 to 8-speed IGH around the same price point or a bit higher, then you would have a modern update to the classic 3-speed with more than enough gearing and low maintenance for today's consumer. Or add a double to the Willy for more gear selection.

That being said, the majority I see riding bikes are using MTN, Cruiser, and even BMX bikes to get around. Bike use has increased notably due to the high cost of gas but so has bike thief. So I suppose it depends on where you live and how far one has to go to work or find work if bike traffic has increased or decreased.

Sorry that I didn't read everyone's responses. In some ways you're right that once kids hit 16 it's all about the car especially here in California. Seems if you don't have a car you're looked down on. But more and more I see kids bucking that trend on singlespeed and fixed gear bikes and that's a good thing.

I think two things killed cycling in America.

The first one, believe it or not, is the local bike shop. The fact of the matter is that as almost a universal rule, local bike shops due a horrifically poor job of fitting their customers to bikes they sell. Employees who should, and do, know better 'eyeball' standover height over the top tube and convince the customer that the bike "fits".

Most customers will never even get the opportunity to try out a single other stem length/rise, let alone actually encounter a sizercycle or an Ergostem to properly fit the bike.

Shops like Vecchio's in Boulder are few and far between. I was talking to the guys and they said they've sold only a handful of bikes "off the floor" in their entire history of business (opened in 2000). That's saying something. There is a high end sizing cycle in the front window. They understand that almost everyone knows someone who has an actual high endish bike in their garage that they just don't ride, because the bike makes the wrists/back/butt hurt.

The truth is not that low end Wal-Mart bikes killed cycling in America, but rather that the indifference, carelessness, abuse of trust, and greed of the local community bike shop did.

The second thing that killed cycling in this country is endemically American. Everyone needs to believe there is something unique, special, or intrinsically gifted about their person. For whatever reason in this country we all feel the need to have outlier large babies that are x% percentile, that our kids all have to be 'gifted', and we all have to have the perfect wife/house/job/life. Very few people in this country are raised with the ethic to be honest good people, but rather to have or be something that is desireable. The vanity of America, we'll call it. People would rather have or be something that other people would consider worth having or being, than to truly be happy, believe it or not.

As this relates to cycling, every idiot fool who couldn't play sports a lick feels the need, whether he's 140lbs or 240, to have a 'race' bike with race geometry and high zoot parts. They feel the need to train relentlessly to compete in their Cat 5,4,3 or Masters categories to reaffirm whatever is insecure about their persons. There is something to be said for being the starting highschool quarterback in a small Ohio or Pennsylvania town. There is something to be said for being a talented infielder in a Dominican beisball academy. There is real competition, and other people are competing. For whatever reason dorky uncoordinated people like to grow up and compete in sports for which there is no real competition other than other dorky uncoordinated people also having something to prove. The real athletes already proved it, years ago, often at high levels of competition, and have moved on to enjoying their families, their communities and their lives.

That need to have a race bike, with near on Tour or Giro level components and kit, I think have done more to destroy cycling in this country. People are sold silly fantasy race bikes that are very uncomfortable and aren't the least bit appropriate for the type of riding they really do.

The truth of the matter is that even with Titanium frames, thousand dollar wheelsets, and high zoot aethereal brakesets that pro teams don't even use, they can't begin to produce the average speed of a real competitive cyclist.

So you have thousands upon thousands of people on bikes that are uncomfortable, and that ultimately drive them away from cycling.

Think about it like this. Imagine if everyone who played slow pitch softball or rec league basketball had to wear Nike orthotics that created knee and ankle issues, but allowed them to perpetuate the 'be like Mike/Ichiro' fantasy. How many people would keep playing?

Sadly road cycling was strong in the US, but the vicious cycle of the magazines killed it. The bike and component companies need to constantly sell new stuff so 7 speeds went to 8, then 9, then 10/11. The need to sell advertising, and cell goods, and sell magazines created a viscious cycle of latest/greatest that destroyed BMX, road cycling, and ultimately cross country mountain biking.

The only thing that is healthy now is inherently not. The big rage is full suspension free ride bikes you don't even pedal. You take a chair lift up a downhill course only to coast back down, launch off obstacles or platforms, and in general act like an X gamer.

If I was a college kid who had a 32lb freeride bike like all my friends, cycling wouldn't be a lifelong pursuit for me either. Those bikes are miserable TO RIDE.

My last point, however, is that cycling is not dead. The whole hipster/fixie craze in this country is for real. More college kids are riding bikes than probably for any generation since the 70s. Its the cool hip thing to do.

They source vintage Bottechia, Peugeot, or Bianchi framesets and basterdize 'em into fixed. Some even go all out and acquire real 120mm track bikes and with 1/8" drivetrains.

Aside from the fact that they'll all have issues with torn meniscus, at least they are out riding. A whole generation of kiddos are buying quality bikes and spending time on 'em.

I can't think of anything better than young kids on bikes that aren't part of the latest greatest race cycle of cycling.

Cycling isn't dead. Its alive and well. Its just not where you think it is. Its on campuses and urban environments. Young people today are clammoring for 'new urbanism' where they can ride their bike, or take a light rail to get everywhere they want to go.

The problem with cycling in this country really is you, the suburban American. Commuting in a car to a job to have a suburban house in a community planned around the car, all to earn a salary to afford a high zoot road bike through which to validate one's self of self.

What's wrong with cycling in America is the American.

There isn't a single bike company selling bike in this country (other than Rivendell), that sell good quality bikes that 95% of the people really want/need. Grant has something in his 'country bike' perspective.

Most people are going to be turned off to cycling, not because of Wal-Mart, but because the hybrid, road race bike, or free ride mountain bike was a poor fit for the needs of the cyclist and a poor fit for the cyclist.

However, their college kids will probably continue to ride. Freakin' hipsters.

Cycling "seems" dead ? Based on what? Have you done an analysis of the world to see how many are cycling over a period of 10, 20 or 50 years?

"Seems" is the key word .


Cycling is always changing ... like everything else.


One of the largest obstacle's in America will always be - the car is king. It's made for the Auto, by the Auto. There are few cities that have bike lanes and all compared to the whole. Many cities you're lucky to find sidewalks to walk on .... let alone a bike path or route. Suburban America is the worst.... in the land of commuting and strip malls ...... there is no thought for anyone but the automobile. Rural America can be even more ruthless ...... with no shouldered roads and the "every road is a freeway" mindset.

That said .... it is what it is. The more things change ..... the more they are the same. Cycling is no better/worse off than 20 years ago .... just different .. . . . . or about the same ... . . depending on who you're asking.

-cheers

Cycling is dead? Are you kidding? Cycling hasn't been this "alive" since the 70s, and I dare say that we might surpass it.

Take a look around. Though it appears to have largely run its course, the ss/fg fad has brought a couple million new around to cycling in the past few years in the States. And, a large percentage of them are likely to stick with it.

These are the glory days of cycling for our generation. It was only a few years ago that my co-workers thought I was a freak for cycling to work.

Enjoy it!

When I was a kid (under 16), I rode my bike everywhere, and like you guys, my parents weren't worried about where I was for hours at a time.

But I distinctly remember it being very uncool to ride a bike once you hit driving age --- this was in the 80s. If you didn't have a car, you bummed a ride off a friend --- you wouldn't be caught dead on a bike. And you had to continuously and endlessly "cruise" parking lots on the weekends to show the other kids that you had a car. Of course, this was when gas was under a $1 a gallon

Then along came quality hybrids and slowly but surely these that wanted transport,but did not want a race bike, slowly saw the light. Hybrids seem to be the biggest selling bike at my LBS and the best value.

People don't not buy unreliable cars to get to work ,so why buy a cheap bike? I do see this point.

People ask me about my £1000 folder and seemed suprised that I would send that much on such a bike. However they start to see the sence when I explain its has saved more than this in Bus fares, car cycle racks. Its a "smart car" for the city,that can still do 25 MPH on the road. People on heavy under geared,overly wide chucky tyres and overly soft suspended bikes seemed surprised and often do not view it as a "proper bike". I just leave them behind and let them make up their own mind!

Great reading. And somewhere therein lies the rub.

Good job, Nick. Did you get my package?

This thread reminds me of another thread we had a year or two ago, where we talked about all the new developments in bicycle marketing of the last 50 years, and argued about which one it was that had killed cycling. Was it the banana seat, that killed proportional sizing of juvenile bikes? Was it the bike boom ten speed "racing bike" that killed fenders, IGH's and upright handlebars? Was it the MTB that killed road bikes? The truth is, each of these developments caught on because it interested people who were getting turned off by some aspect of what had been on the market previously. Some of those people got into cycling, and soon upgrade their equipment accordingly; others did not. Some got stuck with the crap, which generally fell apart.

Case in point:


This morning I was waiting for my train, with my folding bike folded up beside me, and I saw a guy get on the platform with the bike pictured. I noticed that the rear brake cable was not attached, but otherwise the bike looked new. I ignored the bike and its rider, wondering if the conductor would let him on the train a bike that doesn't fold.

Train came. I got on. Behind me, I heard the conductor say. "No bikes. Peak hour train." He wasn't talking to me; my bike was stashed between the seats, I was seated.

I looked out the window as we pulled out of the station, expecting to see the guy and his bike standing there. I was only half right; the guy was gone, but the bike was still on the platform. Not locked or anything. I guess he had to get to work, so he'd abandoned it.

Cycling is booming in the Chicago area. I was out on the local path on Sunday and in the first couple milles saw dozens of people, young and old, riding primarily new road bikes. In the city there are cyclists everywhere. Its growing in popularity yearly. The local radioDJ's mention it quite a bit too. The closer you get to downtown the crazier the riders are.

In the past i would see maybe a 1/2 dozen serious cyclists a week in my travels around the metro area. Now I see dozens daily. Theres 6-8 guys I see every day ride by my house commuting to work.

Who TF cares?

This is such troll bait. Anyone under 30 (myself included) who comes in here to argue any point starting with "Kids these Days..." is looking to pick a fight. If you are under 30 and you are here, in C&V, you are NOT one of the "Kids these days", but you know who they are. Stop pretending to be offended when these old farts make generalizations about whats largely becoming true...otherwise you're gonna spend a lot of time being needlessly offended in your young life.

Me, I'm the same age as the "Kids These Days"...I'm just not one of them, or at least thats what my mommy tells me.

Normal people don't ride bicycles & I don't blame them.

Oh, great, now you tell me.

I suppose that I'm too old to be a "kid" anymore but I'm not exactly an old man yet.

I am of the age to have been a serious U2 fan in middle school (and to call it "middle school" not junior high) when the band was earnest and insightful. I'm not sure what they are now; the last album I bought was "Achtung Baby."

Anyway, the point is, when confronted with a sentiment such as the one our young Mr. Banjo has put forth in this thread, I think of a line from the old U2 tune "Rejoice."

"I can't change the world, but I can change the world in me."

Who cares what everyone else is doing? Don't let it get you down. Continue to use your bike for fun and transportation. Continue to build bikes for your friends and for anyone that needs one. If you do have kids of your own some day, raise them according to your beliefs. Make your own reality what you want it to be. It just might inspire others to do the same.

Yeah, and that Specialized looks great. Good value, too.

+1, I live in the Raleigh, NC area so it's hard for me not to be biased by this area, but I have to agree with bibliobob. There are so many cyclists around here, one of the local municipalities, Apex, is passing laws to help control cycling and the seemingly endless number of pace lines on Saturday morning. I've said several times here on BF that within a 30 mile radius of my house there are around 20 bike shops and that does not include Dick's Sporting Goods stores who also work on bikes.
Mountain bikes, road bikes, hybrids, you name it, they're out there in numbers. College campuses have tons of bikes. The kids in my neighborhood, especially the under 10 crowd are having races in our Cul-de-sac. I don't see cycling as dead or declining at all. If anything, I believe it is the opposite, it's expanding.

great, now my cover's blown

The single speed and fixed gear sub-forum has 1 Mllion posts and twice the volume of c&v. The next wave, in my opinion, is inexpensive single speed/fixie bikes. If I were a kid - this is what I would be riding. Messenger bags are more popular than ever. Cycling is not really dead for younger folks - it's just in a different forum...


Nashbar $299 Single Speed..
https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product...1_10000_201512