Joining the Paramount ranks
10-29-09 | 07:16 AM
#1
Joining the Paramount ranks
Really, I didn't intend on doing it. In fact, given the cult of Paramount, I had casually decided I would avoid all things Paramount unless one turned up locally for a steal. Well, it appears the subliminal (yeah right!) promotion of Paramounts on the forum influenced my subconscious (i.e. portion of the brain that bids on ebay items).
I paid too much, but that's because nearly 1/3 of the cost is shipping and an extra handling charge! The seller claims to be a former LBS employee, so it had better come over-packaged.
It's got the requisite patina that will enable me to actually ride the thing. Seller claims it's an '84 Waterford built. I'll have to confirm that when it arrives (no, I never asked the S/N). Columbus SLX. Short Campy drops. Odd geometry (59ctc x 56.5ctc) which leads me to believe it may have been a custom build - the short TT was the clincher for me.
I'll provide more photos when it arrives.
I paid too much, but that's because nearly 1/3 of the cost is shipping and an extra handling charge! The seller claims to be a former LBS employee, so it had better come over-packaged.
It's got the requisite patina that will enable me to actually ride the thing. Seller claims it's an '84 Waterford built. I'll have to confirm that when it arrives (no, I never asked the S/N). Columbus SLX. Short Campy drops. Odd geometry (59ctc x 56.5ctc) which leads me to believe it may have been a custom build - the short TT was the clincher for me.
I'll provide more photos when it arrives.
10-29-09 | 07:31 AM
#2
Freewheel Medic
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,556
Likes: 3,300
From: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Paramounts sort of just suck us in and as the Borg say, "Resistance is futile!" Great score!
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
10-29-09 | 07:41 AM
#3
Kidding aside, I'm sure I'll be happy with it. Just hoping the SLX on such a large frame isn't too flexy.
10-29-09 | 08:35 AM
#4
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 15,946
Likes: 371
From: Philadelphia, PA
Bikes: Two wheeled ones
I've noticed the Paramount cult, but have never understood what drives it. Why are Paramounts held in higher regard than even Cinellis? I don't get the Peugot Px-10 cult either...I think they pale in comparison to Raleigh Professionals, Paramounts, etc.
Please note...me not getting it is based on my lack of knowledge about paramounts and Px-10s...NOT an insult to paramounts. I know very little about the frame building and manufacture of these bikes. I'm not making an argument, I'm asking the question.
Please note...me not getting it is based on my lack of knowledge about paramounts and Px-10s...NOT an insult to paramounts. I know very little about the frame building and manufacture of these bikes. I'm not making an argument, I'm asking the question.
10-29-09 | 08:48 AM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: AK/IL for a smidge
Bikes: 1983 Schwinn Paramount, 2006 Cannondale Six13 Pro, 1987 Schwinn Voyageur 1986 Fuji Regis, SSR Fixed Gear
That looks like mine, which was made in late 83 and repainted sometime later. Very smooth ride, enjoy every mile on it. What are you going to build it up with?
10-29-09 | 09:10 AM
#6
Freewheel Medic
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,556
Likes: 3,300
From: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)
Originally Posted by JunkYardBike
Just hoping the SLX on such a large frame isn't too flexy.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!
Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com
10-29-09 | 10:58 AM
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 166
Likes: 1
From: Indiana
Bikes: 85 Fuso, 86 Peloton, 84,88 Paramount
It has all the traits of an 84 - cable guides on top of the bottom bracket, cable stop on top of the chain stay, cutout in the fork crown. If it is indeed an 84, I think it will be SL/SP as SLX did not come along until the 86 model year. Nice one - enjoy it, first time you ride it you won't have any remorse over what you paid for it.
10-29-09 | 11:16 AM
#9
I'm going to build it up with whatever mix of parts I have on hand, but it will get a decent wheelset (either DA hubs laced to MA40 rims, or Record laced to Super Champions). If I still have it many years in the future, I might consider a refinish and a high zoot build.
It has all the traits of an 84 - cable guides on top of the bottom bracket, cable stop on top of the chain stay, cutout in the fork crown. If it is indeed an 84, I think it will be SL/SP as SLX did not come along until the 86 model year. Nice one - enjoy it, first time you ride it you won't have any remorse over what you paid for it.
So, as you may speculate, the tubing decal may have been erroneously applied after a repaint.
10-29-09 | 11:17 AM
#10
10-29-09 | 11:22 AM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 166
Likes: 1
From: Indiana
Bikes: 85 Fuso, 86 Peloton, 84,88 Paramount
When you get it, you will be able to see or feel the SLX ribbing at the bottom of the seat tube at the bottom bracket if it is there. I have always thought on an SL/SP mix that the SP is used on the down tube, but not sure. I have both an SL and SLX Paramount (56 cm) and can't tell any difference.
10-29-09 | 11:51 AM
#12
When you get it, you will be able to see or feel the SLX ribbing at the bottom of the seat tube at the bottom bracket if it is there. I have always thought on an SL/SP mix that the SP is used on the down tube, but not sure. I have both an SL and SLX Paramount (56 cm) and can't tell any difference.
All of the Columbus, butted tubesets have helical reinforcements (rifling) in the steerer tube. SL, SP. SLX, SPX and TSX all have them. The only practical way to tell them apart, if the decal is missing, is to look inside the bottom bracket and check the inside of the chainstays, seat tube and down tube for the helcial reinforcements and whether they extend all the way down the tubes (TSX) or not (SLX, SPX).
There is no practical way to determine the difference SL and SP, or SLX and SPX, once the decals are missing. Generally, frames 60cm and over will be SP or SPX while smaller frames will be SL or SLX. However, the crossover point can vary depending on the builder, the intended use and if the frame is custom, the rider's weight. personal preference and other factors. Many frames will also used mixed tubes, such as an SP downtube and chainstays on an otherwise SL frame. This was very common on frames in the crossover region. Columbus did have a special SL/SP decal for such applications, but it was not always used.
There is no practical way to determine the difference SL and SP, or SLX and SPX, once the decals are missing. Generally, frames 60cm and over will be SP or SPX while smaller frames will be SL or SLX. However, the crossover point can vary depending on the builder, the intended use and if the frame is custom, the rider's weight. personal preference and other factors. Many frames will also used mixed tubes, such as an SP downtube and chainstays on an otherwise SL frame. This was very common on frames in the crossover region. Columbus did have a special SL/SP decal for such applications, but it was not always used.
The SL/SP terminology goes back to at least 1978, maybe earlier. However, the decals at his time still appear to be generic. SLX/SPX was introduced in 1984 (1983 if you consider pro peloton frames and the unveiling at the trade shows).
As suggested in an earlier post, I would never try to date a frame, especially an Italian one, based on the decal style. Those old Italian cranftemen built great frames but cared little about housekeeping and stock rotation. If a new supply of tubes came in the, the matching decals would often get thrown in a drawer on top of the existing decals. The decals at the bottom might finally get used up, several years after Columbus stopped making them.
As suggested in an earlier post, I would never try to date a frame, especially an Italian one, based on the decal style. Those old Italian cranftemen built great frames but cared little about housekeeping and stock rotation. If a new supply of tubes came in the, the matching decals would often get thrown in a drawer on top of the existing decals. The decals at the bottom might finally get used up, several years after Columbus stopped making them.
10-29-09 | 11:54 AM
#13
10-29-09 | 12:22 PM
#14
Chrome Freak
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,208
Likes: 26
From: Kuna, ID
Bikes: 71 Chrome Paramount P13-9, 73 Opaque Blue Paramount P15, 74 Blue Mink Raleigh Pro, 91 Waterford Paramount, Holland Titanium x2
I've noticed the Paramount cult, but have never understood what drives it. Why are Paramounts held in higher regard than even Cinellis? I don't get the Peugot Px-10 cult either...I think they pale in comparison to Raleigh Professionals, Paramounts, etc.
Please note...me not getting it is based on my lack of knowledge about paramounts and Px-10s...NOT an insult to paramounts. I know very little about the frame building and manufacture of these bikes. I'm not making an argument, I'm asking the question.
Please note...me not getting it is based on my lack of knowledge about paramounts and Px-10s...NOT an insult to paramounts. I know very little about the frame building and manufacture of these bikes. I'm not making an argument, I'm asking the question.
As a kid in the mid sixties to early 70's, the Paramount was the only high end bike a lot of us were exposed to. In the area where I grew up, the Schwinn shops were the dominant bike shops. There was one other that sold Raleigh, but he never stocked anything better than a Super Course. When I worked in a LBS in the mid seventies, we sold Gitane. On one occasion, the owner of the shop made a trade for a Paramount (which later proved to be stolen -LOL) and briefly, at least, it was the center of our attention. I had little exposure to the Italian bikes of the day.
To sum it up, my cultism is based on all that lustful reading of the Schwinn catalog over many years.
What can I say? I love 'em!
__________________
1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue
1974 Raleigh Professional Blue Mink
1991 Waterford Paramount
Holland Titanium Dura Ace Group
Holland Titanium Ultegra Triple Group
1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue
1974 Raleigh Professional Blue Mink
1991 Waterford Paramount
Holland Titanium Dura Ace Group
Holland Titanium Ultegra Triple Group
10-29-09 | 01:34 PM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Bikes: 2000 Schwinn Paramount Ti, 1994 LeMond/Bilatto, 1985 Colnago Super
It's the same as wanting a Porsche when you were a kid. The idea of one day having one just sticks with you.
The advantage of the Paramount is it's a lot cheaper -- or it should be.
The advantage of the Paramount is it's a lot cheaper -- or it should be.
10-29-09 | 02:28 PM
#18
Completely inappropriately! I'm planning to swap over the parts from this frame (sans fenders), but will probably swap out the crankset for a Campy Racing T and the wheelset for the above mentioned Record/Super Champion or Dura Ace/MA40. I think the Brooks honey leather should look okay.
10-29-09 | 03:02 PM
#21
aka Tom Reingold
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 44,160
Likes: 6,382
From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
I'm sure the pervasiveness of the Schwinn brand and its perception of quality (mostly well deserved) are the biggest contributors to the mystique of the Paramount. As Rabid Koala observes, lots of kids pored over the catalogs, many times over. We would dream of attaining the unattainable, and the thing we knew about the most was the top of the line model from our favorite catalogs. For me, it was Peugeots and Raleighs and Motobecanes, since Schwinn wasn't as big in NYC (where I grew up) as elsewhere in the US. But I suffered from the same phenomenon. I bought a PXN-10 brand new with my summer job money in 1979, and it was soon stolen. I'm more sentimental about that bike than my McLean which is a true rare collector's item, because I was exposed to more Peugeot mystique than anything about custom-made bikes like mine.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
10-29-09 | 03:14 PM
#22
For my generation it was lusting after Hutch, Redline and Mongoose BMX bikes. When I graduated from the girl's Ross banana seat my father had fixed up for me, I was gifted a department store Murray 10-speed I know my father had sacrificed to buy. My father was practical minded, and thought BMX bikes were foolish. The Murray was a lead brick, and was hardly ridden. It made me long for my old Ross, which was a far better curb hopper and trail rider.
10-29-09 | 03:26 PM
#23
PanGalacticGargleBlaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,531
Likes: 9
From: Smugglers Notch, Vermont
Bikes: Upright and Recumbent....too many to list, mostly Vintage.
I was always hot for a Mongoose or a GT...A kid i knew left his Mongoose at my parents house for like 3 years in Junior high and never came back so I had one to ride even though it wasnt mine. Fun bike... I sorta want a BMX again just for screwing around.
10-29-09 | 03:47 PM
#24
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 14
From: Medford, MA
Bikes: Bob Jackson Super Tourer, '83 Trek 700, Gazelle Champ Mondial, Nishiki Comp II, Moto Grand Record, Peugeot UO-10 SS
Ohhhh baby. I thought I felt a disturbance in the tri-state force yesterday. If you want a really loud Chorus 8sp wheel - I got one from Trexlertown.
Wait - what were you compiling the DA 7400 gruppo for - in anticipation of this?
Looks great!
Wait - what were you compiling the DA 7400 gruppo for - in anticipation of this?
Looks great!
10-29-09 | 04:25 PM
#25
Nah, that 7400 stuff and the sweet yellow Regal you scored for me is for the Diamond. I actually want to ride the Paramount!