Insecure people like to say negative things about something they can't afford to justify the fact that they can't get one. That's the only real reason.

This is mighty ignorant... esp coming from someone in the bike service industry

it is easier to break a CF frame, an aluminum frame, a 753/853/SL steel frame than any titanium frame out there...

is titanium just as prone to rust as steel?

no, it is highly rust proof

Not all TI is expensive, with Habanero you can a quality ti frame for as low as $895, or a completed bike with either Shimano 105 for as low as $2,281 or Campy Veloce for as low as $2,012 not including pedals. Or if you want bargain basement TI, Motobecane LeChamp fully equipped with Ultegra is only $1699 including pedals at BikesDirect.

As far as reliability goes...ah who cares these days with al and cf bikes all designed for the short term anyways...just kidding...I think? anywhew a good quality ti frame should last longer then either AL or CF, poor quality and those uber lightweight TI bikes could be another story because to get that weight down the tubes are thinner and some of these have been known to tear. As far as being stronger then steel...only time will tell since none have been around for more then 30 years not alone over 100 years as some steel bikes have lasted. But I will tell you this, I'll take a cromoly steel sword over a TI sword any day; and structurally in aircraft steel is superior to TI; so to make a blind statement that ti is superior to steel is just pure ignorance.

http://swordforum.com/metallurgy/titanium.html

C&V legal post! :) Luis Ocana won the 1973 Tour de France using a Speedwell titanium bike.

For (relatively) inexpensive ti today, see Habanero and BikesDirect (as froze posted while I was typing this).

On the other hand, because of titanium's stress and corrosion properties, great grandchildren should be able to enjoy one's well-built titanium frame - uh, perhaps equipped with a Sturmey AW hub (I mean, what other drivetrain would your great grandchildren still be able to get parts for? ;) ).

tcs

I disagree with the premise that titanium is controversial. It is more expensive than steel or aluminum or carbon. It is difficult to work with, few builders use it so it will remain more expensive. Nothing controversial about it, just plain economics.

I used acetone. They came off easily.

Maybe someone can make a titanium version of the Raleigh 20. :)

I agree, I've got two Ti bikes bought used, both brands were trying to break into the higher end markets (a DBR mountain bike, and a Mongoose Pro Road bike) and farmed out their frame manufacture to a quality custom builder (Ti Sports in Washington). I got the Ti Roadbike with full Dura Ace 9 speed for well below $1,000, and the mtn bike for $400 with old Deore XT so I know good deals are out there. Both bikes have great geometry and are fabulous rides.

I consider titanium and steel the only real "forever bikes" but like RFC mentioned titanium doesn't require any special care that steel might, just cleaning and lubing components on a regular basis.

More like a BF NWT is what I have in mind. But, yes, R20 Ti would be very nice too.

+1. Carbon fiber used to be exceedingly expensive, so it sold in limited quantities, but has now become more mainstream in medium range bicycles. Aluminum has displaced steel as the most common material in all but the cheapest department store bicycles, and even kids bikes are made out of it. It's all about manufacturing economics. As far as durability is concerned, I doubt that most people beyond some on this forum worry about it very much. I have never owned a CF or Ti frame, simply because the steel and aluminum frames have worked for me and cost a lot less. I've never had a steel frame failure, and many of my frames are over 25 years old and have been in racing accidents. The only problem I've had with aluminum was a cracked weld at the top of the seat tube on a 1991 Nishiki Alien ACX rigid MTB. If I had wanted to buy a Ti frame I could have done so; I simply don't see the point of spending a lot of money just to get something exotic or for its snob appeal.

bzzzz......

Titanium is generally not as strong as steel and not as light as aluminum.
depending on the specific alloys being compared, titanium posseses approx 56% the density of steel and approx twice that of aluminum. stiffness(youngs modulus)for Ti is approx 50% that of common carbon steel alloys while tensile strengths range from 30K-200K psi,with the most exotic Ti alloys approaching or equaling that of many carbon steel alloys but not matching the best contemporary alloyed steels used in bicycle tubings.

My understanding is Titanium has something like 90% of steel with about half the weight (of course some of those exotic alloys catch that up a bit). To compensate for that %10, you use slightly thicker tubing and end up with a lighter and stronger frame. Aluminum is lighter than ti and steel, but it's MUCH less strong, which is why the extra thick tubing is used. They end up heavier than ti bikes and weaker.

I've asked about titanium once and was told it was controversial...and an earlier thread yesterday mentioning it had the same comment. Usually titanium threads don't get many responses. I was told it was controversial by members, so asked why.

I don't own a ti bike because I'm a snob...I own it because I rode one once when I was 14 and have wanted one ever since. It's the exact same reason I just got a De Rosa...it was a really cool bike I couldn't afford as a kid. I couldn't afford it or justify the price, so never got one. I fonally got a killer deal on a used one (92' frame with DA 7600 for $675).

Agree completely with post 37 - I've also had plenty of steel bikes and aluminum bikes since getting my first high-end race bike in 1965 but no ti bikes. Steel can break, aluminum can break, titanium can break, but the failure rates for all three frame materials are very low (because of mature fabrication technology), so ride whatever you like. To me, titanium is OK stuff, but my aluminum bikes cost and weigh less and ride so well that I have no interest in other frame materials.

I don't think many if any posters here think your a snob because you own a TI bike unless their extremily immature.

I watched these posts for a bit and no one has even mentioned that TI is bit more comfortable to ride vs other material, and it doesn't have that dead wood feeling you get from CF. So there are advantages and disavantages to all the different materials used in bikes, you just choose the material that fits your needs and idealogy the best. And you can't compare professional racing bikes with what we buy and think their using this particular material (or part) because it's the best-no they get those bikes for free and if they crash, break or wear out prematurely they get another for free, in fact they don't even keep them longer then one season so long term effects of racing conditions are not established.

But this is an interesting site for those who want to learn more about the properties of steel, ti and al. http://swordforum.com/metallurgy/titanium.html

Ti frames only come in one color, titanium. I like nice shinny paint on my bikes.

?

Ti can be painted as well. It costs extra, and it can chip or scratch, but there's nothing that prevents a Ti frame from getting paint.

With how beautiful the titanium is naturally, I'd NEVER paint it. I also love having a bike I never have to worry about scratching!

That being said, for shere aesthetic beauty...the Merlin doesn't compare to the lugged orange De Rosa (I went with white cinelli tape to match the white decals).

Colorful steel, thats the way i roll!

Two manufacturers that I can think of at the moment who offer very good deals on Ti frames are Douglas and Lynsky. This is for new Ti frames, btw.

Of course, when considering the retail cost of a Colnago steel frame, Bianchi, or any other big name brand might be nearly twice as much as a Lynskey frame; if you want Ti, it's a no-brainer.

In fact, because of carbon's popularity in the pro peloton and fast club rides (plus it's cheap to produce on a mass scale), and the currently popularity steel has enjoyed with many big manufacturers, Ti has been sort of forgotten, which is why it can be obtained for a steal (pun intended).

As a point, on CL in the last couple months, I've seen three Ti Schwinn Paramount for less than $600; one was an entire bike with Dura Ace, IIRC.

I've owned two titanium bikes. They are nice but nothing transcendental. I do however like some of the effects that you can achieve with titanium.

Check out these details of my 1992 titanium bike

On the subject of frame materials, check out these dead wood bicycles.

tcs

I do think ti is great stuff, but I often hear of people who think it never breakes or stuff like that. It is not like you're entering a bicycle paradise in which everything is perfect and that all will be happiness. More or less same applies to Rohloff and beltdrive system. It is not magic. I think basicly a fine steel HT with XT2 is not that different. You only trade a few pros and cons for other ones.

Ahhh...somebody that actually knows what they are talking about.

Ti's performance envelope is readily matched by incarnations of other materials, with one exception. Ti has better corrosion resistance relative to steel and aluminum, which is easily negated by paint/coatings and proper maintenance.

Good deal on a new Ti framset:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...0_frameset.htm