http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...9&d=1258352884

Wow, those are some smoooooth welds. More pics please!

A great source for inexpensive Ti frames is a travel company called Backroads. They sell off their used Ti bikes every fall for $799. The components are kind of goofy (Shimano 105's with XT RD's to accommodate a crazy range of gears) but it's worth it just for the frame. They are nothing fancy, made in China specifically for Backroads I think, but a solid touring frame with decent welds. I got one for my wife, who doesn't need a Lightspeed/Merlin for the amount of riding she does.

Beautiful bike, there. Is that a Ti fork? I've never seen Ti sculpted in a curve like that.

We need more pics of old Ti in this thread!

I had a chance to buy an older Litespeed but changed my mind when I heard about flex issues around the BB when Ti is used. Is this just one of those "schoolyard rumours" or is such a thing well-known?

Yes, the fork is Titanium, as are handlebar/stem combo.

I see it as essentially ignorance amongst those drinking the Kool-Aid of the steel cult.

A steel bike is NEVER the right bike for the application, there is always another material that does EVERYTHING steel does better, lighter, faster, more efficiently, stronger, or stiffer. Always.

Everything a handcrafted high end steel frame can do an engineered titanium bike can do better. Everything...

Its all about snob appeal, some need to validate oneself as more sophisticated, learned, or enlightened. The best thing is that the personality types that scoff at titanium, carbon, and aluminum are also the same types that have to validate themselves as cyclists on every group ride. In this, there is some sense of delicious justice. Their bikes are horrendously inefficient, are boat anchors, and they have to put out significantly more wattage to just keep pace with the titanium, carbon, and even the garage sale Cannondale crowd.

People don't remember where this all came from in the first place. When the US market changed the paradigm with oversized aluminum bikes those that stood the most to lose, the boutique builders of handmade Italian steel bikes, started a whispering campaign about these new bikes being 'too stiff', too this and too that.

The only place for steel is on cheap bikes in India and China, and also to separate rich ignorant vain Americans from their money.

As for you titanium bike, enjoy it. What it really comes down to is that your status symbol challenges their desperate attempt to validate and signal their own sense of self. Which is sad, because riding a bike should put a smile on your face, and most definitely should not be something to arm the arsenal of vanity and false pride.

mtnbke,
A beautifully written and carefully crafted statement.
Hmmmmm, would you agree that Ti bikes are somewhat boring?
I can't be sure about the people who ride them because I don't know any but my guess is they are not?

In fact, I know very little about bicycles but titanium and carbon fiber do strike me as more synthetic than elemental. I have drunk from cups of steel, aluminum and titanium. It wasn't the same but damned if I'm positive which was better.

I hope your point is that one experience is not better than the other, just different and that our personalities often color the experience rather than just enjoying it.

It's a temporal world of illusion isn't it?
Our sensory interpretation is only the beginning of the problem.
Within our world of misinterpretation the spirits of steel and the sprits of titanium co-exist.
And I love them both.
They are far older than you or I.
Or are they?
On a night like this, clear and cold you and I might ask where we were before we were born.

Or why we are awake at such an hour, my excuse is that I'm a night nurse.
Fa la la la la my Wisconsin brother.
Bill in Stevens Point, WI.

Follow my religion, because all others are false.

Maybe you are just paranoid. I have never heard of titanium bikes being controversial. However, it's a time-worn cycling tradition to argue about frame materials.

BTW, I have 3 steel road bikes and one titanium. My ti (Eddy Merckx AX) is my favorite bike for long rides.

"old" ti
 

How's this for you? Eddy Merckx AX, circa 1998. I bought the frame/fork used about 5 years ago and I've probably ridden 15,000 miles on it since then. No telling how many miles the previous owners (at least two) put on it. Not a dent on it. I replaced the decals and buffed the tubing with a Scotchbrite pad when I first got the frame.

What a crock of ....! Let me guess, you're an English lit prof at UofW. Well, I'm a retired structural engineer, and I've got news for you buddy. There ain't a whole lot of difference between the various metal alloys that can be formed into tubing shapes and used to fabricate bicycle frames. They are all linear, elastic, isotropic materials that have comparable ratios of young's modulus to unit weight, which in lay terms simply means that they can all be used to make frames with similar properties. My choices of frame materials have always been based on pragmatic considerations of cost and availability, and I don't associate with people that worship inanimate objects or see their own worth in terms of their possessions. I don't "scoff" at materials any more than I might howl at the moon.

Again...I was told on two threads that titanium was controversial. I haven't been here long enough to have seen the argument, so I asked why I was told that. The thing I'm learning from this thread is that it's not controversial so much as some people prefer steel.

Speaking for myself...it's difficult to really judge frame feel when the tires, seat post and saddle are different on the bikes...but I LOVE how my ti feels. I also love how fast and light it is. My recent SLX De Rosa acquisition has a more firm, solid feel...and I love that too. Both feel notably better than my reynolds 531 Raleigh...but that could be tires...etc.

TejanoTrackie, are you expecting to find objective well thought out reasoning?

Heck, I'm old-58- so I use wider tires-2"- with 40 psi on mtb type frames.I -not the bike-just don't take sharp bumps as well,so I don't want to put up with the filling loosening that 120 psi on 23mm tires gives you.
Heck, I can't tell anything about the frame characteristics; It is all lost in my nice soft tires which is exactly what I want.

The most important aspect material aspect of the bike is when I have to lift it off the upper level of the bike rack-over 30 lbs is too much.
If I could afford it,I would love to have a Titanium bike. I like the skinny look of older steel bikes, but they never really "felt" better than other materials-not with 110 psi in the tires.
Charlie

Phoebisis...I've always wondered how much of what I feel is really the frame and how much is the tires and saddle. I'd bet it's mostly the tires and saddle. I'll say this, the ti bike is MUCH lighter than any of the steel or aluminum I've owned, and I feel that difference. It's FAST and easy to take up the stairs to the apartment!

More pics!

Less late-night Wisconsin.

+1 I grew up in the frozen North and know how, when nuclear winter sets and molecular movement is reduced to zero, the mind can turn to dark thoughts. And, if you stay up long enough, you can convince yourself that you are actually a tormented Mozart, Von Braun, or Robby Burns.

Goodnight, Wisconsin.

I am a major Ti fan. If I could only have one bike, it would be Ti. Like any frame material, it can be fabricated to achieve different ride qualities.

Below are two examples:

The 1994 Catalyst has, in my opinion, a very classic look and a steel like ride. Enough flex for comfort but plenty stiff for climbing. At one point, Bianchi used the Catalyst as its Ti model.

The 1998 Ultimate is as stiff as any bike I have experienced. It accelerates like a rocket and climbs like a goat. I have since tricked this bike out with it's original Ti seatpost, silver stem and Fizik saddle. The 2001 version of this model was ridden to a sprint victory in the TdF that year.

BTW, I believe that the old claim that steel has "soul" and Ti doesn't is crap. They are inanimate materials used to build other inaminate objects. There is no soul here.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...MG_0004r-1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3.../IMG_0103r.jpg

KonAaronSnake
Exactly, hauling it around or up stairs or up to the rack after the ride is where light weight REALLY fast.
There was a very nice Titanium 14" hardtail on ebay recently.I eyeballed it and it went for about $900 delivered. It was a bit cheaper than the Peugeot Mixte that recently was threaded here.
I like Mixtes, but if I had a spare $900 it would have gone for something modern and lightweight that could take fat tire and had GOOD brakes, not the hint of braking that 70's early 80's vintage bikes give.
Charlie

C'mon! Everyone knows titanium is better than steel simply because titanium has more syllables. :thumb:

Someone post a photo of one of those painted Ti bikes that someone actually owns & rides.

I own it, I ride the heck out of it.

Before:

http://i50.tinypic.com/e81hqx.jpg

After:

http://i48.tinypic.com/15cmvdg.jpg

Sorry, only 50% painted.

In a few hundred miles it will be about 1/3 painted. Actually,I do like that. I would like to see a Ti frame that had only stay ends exposed. Do they hold paint?

I'm missing your point.

The bike in the photo has well over 6,000 miles on it. It's been ridden in light snow, sleet, (a lot of) rain, and sun.

I'm completely at a loss as to why anyone thinks Ti can't be painted.

Whether's it's *smart* to paint a Ti bike is another issue. Many owners find that it's better to keep the frames unpainted; that way you don't have any paint chips or scratches to worry about. Mine is painted for a reason that's irrelevant to this discussion.

while the frame on the right has been ridden I have not had a chance to do so yet.