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Upgrading shifting

Old 11-25-09, 03:42 PM
  #1  
lowranchero
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Upgrading shifting

what is entailed, (parts replacement and cost), when upgrading from a friction shifting system to index shifting or even an ergo system? current set up is campy victory 12 speed 130mm spacing.
does this type of an upgrade produce dramatic improvement?
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Old 11-25-09, 04:00 PM
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You can change out your freewheel with a $15 SIS one, and dramaticaly improve your friction shifting. You can then pick up some <$20 SIS stem shifters on eBay and have indexed shifting - my wife loves that set up.

I popped $150 for 8 speed Ergos, new cables ($50,) and they work with $20 SIS 7 speed freewheels - no need to replace the wheel, bend the frame, or nothing. (Although I then went on to spend $400-500 on upgrading the drivetrain to 2008 Campy...it all would have worked with the old stuff, too, but my bike deserved some nice stuff.)

You can also spend a lot more and start upgrading everything.

Last edited by sciencemonster; 11-25-09 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 11-25-09, 04:16 PM
  #3  
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Its reasonable:

Shimano setup:
FD: $5
RD: $15
Shifters: $20
Freewheel: $15
Chain: $15

Campy: Only dead reliable system uses Ergo levers. As far as I know the most reliable Campy setup would require a cassette hub and associated parts including a cassette. Its my opinion that if you want a campy Ergo setup you should buy a complete bike. Good used bikes with Ergo start around $300-ish with the occasional 'steal' popping up every now and then.
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Old 11-25-09, 05:25 PM
  #4  
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sounds good to me. just look over ebay and pickup tha above parts simplist way to do it.
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Old 11-25-09, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Its reasonable:

Shimano setup:
FD: $5
RD: $15
Shifters: $20
Freewheel: $15
Chain: $15

.

Why would he need all that? Just throw the freewheel and shifters on there, and yer there, if you are looking to do it on the cheap. I had it working with an old Suntour RD, and she's using a 2007 Veloce now. Works fine.
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Old 11-25-09, 06:29 PM
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Jim knows bikes for sure.

The cheapest way to do it is to find a cheap donor bike, swap out parts, and then resell the donor. I have done this with several bikes, and I often accomplish the change at no cost.
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Old 11-26-09, 07:47 AM
  #7  
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Believe me, pretty much anything will shift better than the Victory RD. I still remember when I swapped mine out for a Centaur and how much of a difference there was.
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Old 11-26-09, 09:02 AM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by sciencemonster View Post
Why would he need all that? Just throw the freewheel and shifters on there, and yer there, if you are looking to do it on the cheap. I had it working with an old Suntour RD, and she's using a 2007 Veloce now. Works fine.
he will need a indexing compatible RD built ona slant parrellelagram body. IMHO while Victory is great looking kit it will never reliably index. while you can mix and match the shifters and freewheel must match and the RD must be index comaptible.
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Old 11-26-09, 05:55 PM
  #9  
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I currently have one indexed shifter in use while my other bikes are friction. I don't personally see any significant advantage but for someone not schooled with friction the indexing would probably less intimidating.
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Old 05-05-20, 03:22 PM
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I have a Victory or Triumphe rear with 126 mm spacing, could I fit a 7 speed Shimano freewheel and use 8 speed ergo brifters?
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Old 05-05-20, 05:40 PM
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I’ve actually played with Victory and indexing. There’s a few problems to solve.

There’s no cable tension adjustment.

The RD cable pull to movement ration is off, at least with the levers I tried (record, 105 1055, dura ace 7400).

Synchro rings have designations for each color, but experimentation is needed to make sure they actually work.

Victory has a kind of b-screw adjustment without the b-screw, but the top pulley doesn’t get as close to the cogs. You end up with clunky (technical term) shifting.

If you don’t have to move the rear hub lock nuts you’re good to go. Otherwise the rear wheel might need re-dishing.

Overall I think the Victory RD does better with friction shifters.

So, the advice above to buy a shimano RD and shifters is probably the best way to go. Changing to shimano cogs with chain assist will result in even be better shifting. Think HG or UG.

Unless you really like tinkering with your drive-train instead of riding it...
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Old 05-05-20, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by whitemist View Post
I have a Victory or Triumphe rear with 126 mm spacing, could I fit a 7 speed Shimano freewheel and use 8 speed ergo brifters?
Technically yes. See Sheldon Brown's Crib Sheet.
There's a few problems which might come up. The ergos might not be pulling the right amount of cable for the RD. J-Tek thingy can fix this, as can respacing the cogs (pain in the rear).
If you have to move the rear hub lock nuts then the wheel might need to be re-dished.
If the hub is threaded for French threads it's a no-go.
If the hub is threaded for Italian freewheels it's fine but you should probably stick with ISO threaded freewheels once you change.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:11 PM
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It's a campy hub that came on the Bianchi. It's the best shifting bike I've ever had, and the Victory if thats what it is looks like a nice piece of work. I've just had a few scary moments steering with one hand and shifting on the downtube. Was the record Derailleur you used 8 speed? Just seeing what my options are. Maybe barcons.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:12 PM
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I meant record brifter.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by whitemist View Post
It's a campy hub that came on the Bianchi. It's the best shifting bike I've ever had, and the Victory if thats what it is looks like a nice piece of work. I've just had a few scary moments steering with one hand and shifting on the downtube. Was the record Derailleur you used 8 speed? Just seeing what my options are. Maybe barcons.
Technically it's chorus ergos, but in that year (94) I think record and chorus are the same functionality. Maybe the bodies were different material.
You can tell victory from triomphe by the recessed bolts. Victory is recessed, Triomphe used wider head non-recessed bolts.
There's other problems with going with victory/triomphe and indexing that I listed in a post above. This is irregardless of ergo or DT index shifting.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by whitemist View Post
I have a Victory or Triumphe rear with 126 mm spacing, could I fit a 7 speed Shimano freewheel and use 8 speed ergo brifters?
I am using 8s Ergolevers with matching 8s rear derailer and this indexes alright with a Shimano 7s freewheel.
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Old 05-05-20, 07:12 PM
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I was thinking it wouldn't be hard to have a cable adjuster, but if the cable pull for the Victory RD is different from the 8 speed Ergo then I guess it won't work without the adapter. I thought I'd seen a post from someone saying they were using The 8 speed Ergo with a Victory RD. Thanks for the info everyone
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Old 05-05-20, 07:32 PM
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Personally, I don't see the point. If I was still racing, index shifting would be absolutely necessary in order to select the right gear in a sprint without missing a shift. However, with a shimano-compatible ramped freewheel/cassette and 6 or 7 speeds, friction shifting dumps you into a gear pretty easily, with very little "in-between-gears" clunking and rattling as we used to have with 5-speed freewheels. For non-racing applications it works perfectly well. Also, with friction shifting you don't have to worry about "tune ups" and cable stretch.
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Old 05-05-20, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by metabike View Post
Believe me, pretty much anything will shift better than the Victory RD.
If anyone has one they're getting rid of, pm me!
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Old 05-06-20, 06:40 AM
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It"s not so much that I want the index shifting, I want the shifting off the down tubes. I usually ride it on the hoods so brifters would be most convenient, maybe barcons are the way to go. At least then I could shift with both hands on the bars even if I'm usually on the hoods when pavement, cars or pedestrians compel me to make unplanned stops or maneuvers.
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