What defines C&V ?
 

I really like the older bikes. I've been lurking in the Classic & Vintage forum for a while and I have the silly question of the day.
What makes a bicycle a " C&V " bicycle? Is it age? Type of frame construction? Lack of new tech (i.e., indexed shifting or aero parts)? Or maybe there are no hard and fast rules. Does a 20+ year old bike with 'brifters' and clipless peddles belong in C&V? How about a brand new bike with steel frame, down tube shifters and clipless peddles? Will a 2009 Trek Madone be a C&V bike in 20 years?
A little insight would be nice, inquiring minds want to know.

I think the use of "traditional" materials tends to dictate what defines a C&V bike. At least that is my way of looking @ it. I think a steel lugged frame is the basis for a traditional bike. What is added to the bike may be open to interpretation. Also, the bike that was the "it" bike during the time when bike racing became more mainstream is going to be a defining C&V example. (I might be talking out my backside on that one, but it made sense to me). Hope this helps, and I still think it is subjective....

For me, a bicycle that is 25 years old or older falls into the vintage class. However, there are much newer bicycles that might not be vintage in the years piled up sense, but them might still be collectible.

But that is just an opinion.

DASWCT

(Do a search, well covered topic)

Yawn...here we go again.

I'd post a link to the threads of yore that flog this subject, but I can't find them. I'm sure someone else will have better luck.

EDIT: Found some -

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Vintage-For-Me
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ne+C%26amp%3BV
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...is+C%26amp%3BV

-Kurt

Whatever it is, I think it's best left open to interpretation.

What defines C&V changes as the years pass:

To some it ends before 1984, because that's the first year for index shifting, clipless pedals, and the death of Tulliio Campagnolo.

To others, it's defined by lugged steel frames, no matter when they've been made.

A third definition is the plain old 20 or 25 year age limit, like vintage cars and motorcycles.

Take yer pick. I tend to go with the third definition, most of the time.

+1 - let the bean counters stay in the automotive world.

-Kurt

Simple- it is what I'm trying to sell to you!
Mine is vintage, yours is old junk.
Just kidding.

Reminds me of one of the lines in the Craigslist gag postings:

"Vintage implies it was worth something when it was new, otherwise, it's just old."

-Kurt

Look at a 60-year-old Rene Herse. Looks like a bike from the '60s, '70s, '80s...today? That's classic. It has a style doesn't fade out in one or two seasons. Vintage is related to the age of the item. Possibly 25+ years or older is my guess. The carbon fiber road bikes of today will be the vintage bikes of tomorrow. A possible "rule of thumb" for C&V bicycle enthusiasts: "An older bike with classic styling built with fine workmanship and quality materials and components." In addition, unique bikes with interesting histories or nostalgic value can also be considered collectable. The bottom line, though, is the amount of enjoyment you get out of this hobby.

Some say 50 years old is vintage, some say 25 years old (like cars) is vintage some say 20 years old because that's when aluminum began to take over as the frame material of choice. Then there's the definition of "classic" which I won't even begin to address.
And when all that's done, someone, probably me, will say none of this applies to mountain bikes because they haven't been around that long and a 15 year old MTB is actually vintage.
However to answer your question, IMHO, I think a 09 Trek Madone will have to wait until it is 25 years old to become a vintage bike and it's a 50/50 crap shoot as to whether or not it becomes a classis. While beautiful, there are plenty of them around. It will depend on what happens when Trek stops manufacturing them. Will they suddenly become desirable because of their beauty or smooth ride or low weight? On the other hand, if Bikes Direct comes out with a low priced look-a-like, well, you can imagine what that will do to desirability.
If you own a 09 Madone, my advice is ride it.

I simply don't know.

I just like a certain style of bike, beer, woman, car, audio equipment, shoes, and music.

As I've said before, C& V = Circumspect & Vague.

Well, I sure cannot top T-Mar's interpretation of C and V.Says it all.

+1

I've always referred to this forum as Cranky & Vintage

You should see a couple of my 26 year old Mountain Bikes. I'm sure that others
will chime in with a few MB's of their own.

On subject, what is C&V is very subjective. For me - 25 years old, lugged steel frame, does it for me.



Johnnybee.

Very subjective - at least where the "classic" comes in. "Vintage" is pretty straightforward - only possible debate is what is "vintage" and what is just plain old. But classic I think can incorporate even a new bike, with "classic" construction and styling. That's subjective as can be. I certainly will count my new Mercian as "classic", but I don't count an Electra with "classic" styling as "classic. Illustrations below......

Classic:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MjhKMkrwms...0/IMG_9151.JPG

Not Classic:

http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/E...mClassicGr.JPG

IMHO I fell true C&Vs are pre 1984-85. while I personally bid not become a bicycle fanatic until '87 or '88 I consider the older bikes to be "classics" for many reasons.

one of the main reason was bikes before this time had a style and class just like autos before 1970 or so. a bicycle was built to be both beautiful and functional. now bikes are just built to be light and have lots of gears and as long as it looks aerodynamic it is susposed to look good.

to me the bikes from 83 -85 represent a "golden" era. most bicycles were still made of steel and had exposed brake cables and friction shifting. for practical purposes the classic "10 spd" had reached it's pinnacle of developement. after that time improvements such as aero brakelevers, index shifting, aero rims and other 'refinements' rapidly changed not only the bicycle as we knew it, but the sport itself.

and do not get me started on chrome bumpers, tailfins, hats and gloves

Can we talk about the beer, women, and hifi instead of C&V?

HiFi should be tubed, period.

Bianchigirl, internal cable routing was seen in pre WWII bikes so for me that doesn't preclude vintage.

Yeah, lets talk about C&V hifi.

I always through vintage is pre-index shifters. Classic can be anything.

I was refering more to brake levers.

I do not know about tubes but I would love to replace mt Luxman 101 with a working one.

You're missing out on C-Record. Don't tell me C-Record isn't classic.

-Kurt

An example; I think this 2010 Bianchi works perfectly in this forum, as it is classic.
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...3&d=1263840411

a Nouvo Classic to be sure. but then again I am biased *giggle*

really?

what model Luxman 101? RT 101?
hmmm, maybe I should start a C&V Audio thread. . . (again)

I do agree C {Corse} Record certainly is beautiful, i felt I had to draw a line somewhere. looking at advertisements and race pics, '84-'85 seems to the last years where almost everyone was using nonareo brakelevers, clips and straps and friction.

I think that in 40 years people are going to remember their CF Madones as being beautiful and will be complaining about how ugly today's bikes are...which are made out of liquid plutonium and shift gears through ESP.

Assuming CF lasts 40 years.