Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I went on a little rescue mission yesterday out to Long Island to pick up a Durkopp

here's what I ended up with for 65 bux










Not pictured are a set of fenders with some super cool headlights and taillights w/ a bottle generator, and a chainguard.

Its got some neat little bits on it....oil ports on both the front and rear hub and also on the Bottom bracket. The ports themselves are really neat all metal bits with flip-up caps.

The rear wheel is a total mystery to me. Its a 3 speed, but not internal gears...its a 3 speed freewheel cassette and its got a coaster brake. It didn't come with any derailleurs or anything, so I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to change gears. The rear hub is labeled "F&S Torpedo" and has the number "51" and the letter "M" stamped on it. Tires are labeled "700x32C MICHELIN 28x 1 5/8 x 1 1/4" (2 sizes on the sidewall of the same tire...what the heck?@!). The rear wheel spins, pedals and brakes properly..i just have no clue how I'm meant to shift gears without a derailleur (or what the heck derailleur is made for a 3 speed). I'm kind of guessing the "51' on the rear hub is the Year.

The frame itself is solid, and surprisingly lightweight but was rattlecanned like a million years ago... they sprayed the headset and the stem too. I think i'm gonna try to use a little scotchbrite on the paint and see if i can get down to the original but honestly it seems like a paintjob is gonna be in order for this mess. The rims are painted (by an ape with a brush) silver, and a magnet doesn't stick to them...i'm guessing its just a really thick coat of paint. Whoever rattlecanned the frame had the foresight or whatever to tape off the DURKOPP downtube logos and the "Made in Germany" decal. Dropouts are stamped. and there's like 5 holes around the rear dropouts for whatever reason. The Seatpost is a straight pin style, not like a '7' shaped lookin one.

Its the most screwed up bike I've attempted to work on so far, so any tips or thoughts on how to proceed are much appreciated.

David Newton

If I had that, I wouldn't do anything but re-grease all the bearings and chain, being careful not to clean any crud off of it.
I would love to roll up to my friends on their shiny carbon bikes and sniff at them!

Of course you'll want to get the brakes working well, but maybe you can just replace the inner cable and leave the dirty outer.
It may not be a 3 speed, it may be that you loosen the wheel and shift the chain over, basically you get 3 ratios to choose from, but not while riding.

Pretty soon the spokes are going to destruct, but not all at once, just don't do any fast downhills.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

that possibility occured to me as well although I would have expected to see wingnuts on the rear sorta like the front if the rear was meant to come off and be changed with any frequency

sailorbenjamin 

IF THOU LIFT UP THY TOOL UPON IT, THOU HAST POLLUTED IT!!!
Exodus 20:25

sailorbenjamin 

Sheldon says that size is just a fat 700. I see a decent set of alloys on a fat IGH. Hang those wheels on the wall for wall art and get some wacky red and white modern tire to replace it.
Are the dropouts long enough to support the Kmart Cambio Corso theory? Are the 5 hole for an alignment peg on the hub?
Clean carefully. I wonder how the paint is under all that paint.
I'm glad to see you got this bike. I was tempted but I had to buy a Raleigh instead.
I did just pick up a dead old sears/puch. If there's anything that fits that you could use, let me know (bearings, etc)

cudak888 

K-Mart Cambio Corsa? That's hilarious.

-Kurt

Mos6502

Considering the way the reaction arm is "fixed" to the frame, that idea does make sense. If it was meant to have the wheel stay put they would have used the typical clamp instead of a U shaped bracket.

javal

two nice Dürkopp´s from c:a -37. Models 115 & 116. Commercial leaflet.

Esteban32696

A little info ;

http://oldbike.wordpress.com/1948-52-durkopp-herrenrad/

cudak888 

Where did that flyer come from? Any singlespeeds in it?

-Kurt

buck mulligan

I wonder if something like this might work for you:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Early-Cyclo-3-sp...item335bf0e729

Andrew F

Glad you got it! I wonder if the wing-nuts were moved from the rear to the front at some point? I wonder if there is enough travel in the drop-outs to take up the chain-slack as you move from gear to gear?

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

OK, clue me in....whats that?

sailorbenjamin 

Cambio Corso was one of the first derailler systems. They hadn't figured out jockey wheels and cages yet so they had a lever device that slid the whole axle up and down the dropout to take up the slack while you were riding. Not really made for coaster brakes, though.
I wonder if they'd work with a fixed hub.

sailorbenjamin 

Uh, it's Cambio Corsa. Italian, not Spanish;
http://bikeville.blogspot.com/2009/0...a-bicycle.html

tcs

There had been jockey wheels and cages for over three decades by the time the Cambio Corsa was introduced. It was actually a bizarre attempt by Campagnolo to leverage their quick release manufacturing into a gear change system.

tcs

tatfiend 

I suspect that some parts are missing. Cyclo made 2 and 3 speed rear sprocket clusters that could be installed on Sturmey Archer and Sachs 3 speed hubs. They also might well fit old Sachs coaster brake single speed hubs. They also made a plunger type derailleur and mounting bracket to work with their sprocket clusters.

Sachs themselves did make derailleurs to work with some multi sprocket coaster brake hubs. They included an upper chain guide to retain the chain when reverse pedalling to operate the coaster brake. IIRC that setup is shown in the third edition of Frank Berto's book "The Dancing Chain". BTW it is an excellent reference on many oddball bicycle gear change systems that have been used.

From what I have read German city riders demanded that their bikes have a coaster brake hub and Sachs built derailleur and coaster brake setups to meet the demand.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

thanks for the info, These hubs are made by "F&S" is that related to Sachs?

rhm

F&S is Fichtel und Sachs, so yes, that's the same Sachs.

Check out: www.hubstripping.com, website devoted to IGH's. Somewhere on that website is an explanation --or a link to and explanation-- of the F&S date codes. Yes, there is a date; but it's probably in the form of a letter, not a number.

I'm glad you got the bike! It looks pretty cool.

What do I know, but I'm kinda doubting there was ever any kind of gear change mechanism on this bike. Derailleurs and coaster brakes don't get along well, but it would be easy to loosen the axle nuts, put the chain on the desired cog, and tighten 'em up again. Come for a ride with me out on Long Island this summer, and you'll see: put it in the small cog to ride to Montauk (tail wind), then the big cog to ride back (head wind).

Edit:
Here we go, a page on dating F&S hubs (it says yours is a '69)

There's also this page at Hubstripping.com from which I quote:

Dating a Fichtel & Sachs hub:
When you have a look on th hub shell of old Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo hubs you´ll find a letter on it. They started in the year 1958 with the letter “A” and went with each year forward. The “I” and the “Q” was not used to prevent a mix-up with the “J” and the “O”. In 1975 the letters moved on the brake lever. On the brake lever you´ll find two letters. The lower on represents the production year. The upper letter the production month.
A = 1958 D = 1961 G = 1964 K = 1967 N = 1970 R = 1973 B = 1959 E = 1962 H = 1965 L = 1968 O = 1971 S = 1974 C = 1960 F = 1963 J = 1966 M = 1969 P = 1972 T = 1975 U = 1976 W = 1978 Y = 1980 A = 1982 C = 1984 E = 1986 V = 1977 X = 1979 Z= 1981 B = 1983

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Well if thats the case, then a 1969 made hub can't be Original Equipment. Everything I've read says Durkopp stopped making Bicycles in 1960.

here's something else I found off that hubstripping link

My hub looks a lot like the one in the pic (except with 3 cogs instead of 1, the oil port is identical to mine) and has codes stamped in the locations shown in that picture. According to that it could be a '51 although they fail to mention what the "M" would indicate.

That same page recommends looking at the stem and the BB spindle for date codes as well, so I'll probably pull that apart tonight.


rhm, do you think mine is a duo-matic hub with a 3 speed cassette on it or simply a regular coaster brake hub?

noglider 

Wow, this is cool.

How many teeth on the chainwheel and sprockets?

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Not sure, I'll count when I get home but the rear looks like it might be 11-14-16 or something like that.

I'll post pics of the Fenders and Chainguard as well tonight, they are super cool.

Mos6502

The duomatic wasn't introduced until 1964, and the hub shell has a completely different appearance than the picture you posted. So it's pretty much a certainty that yours is the plain coaster brake.

rhm

Zaphod, I don't know, but I'm guessing you have a coaster brake hub. Have you told us all the writing on it? I got F&S, Torpedo, Schweinfurt, 51, M. Is that all?

I'm guessing 51 is a model number.

I'm guessing anything fancy will have a model name-- Dreigang for three speed; Duomatic etc. Lacking those, it's probably a coaster brake.


Here's a link to a simple coaster brake hub.

Check out this photo I found on someone's Flickr page:
Looks familiar, eh?

And here's another one, different flickr user:

Note that's a Reichenbach hub; the main F&S plant was at Schweinfurt. Reichenbach isn't even in Germany any more.

I suspect the oil port style tells you something about the date of the hub. Your bike has three of them, right? All the same style? That might tell you what's original, what's not.

And an ebay listing of coaster brake hubs.

Here's a page on Fichtel & Sachs generally.

mkeller234

+1, I'm glad someone ended up with it. I made an attempt for it but never heard back from the seller after initially contacting him followed by three emails. It was hard to tell what kind of condition it was in so it's better that you got to see it in person first. Are the rims and fenders aluminum?