BigPolishJimmy

What's up with this Paramount?

https://southbend.craigslist.org/bik/1722311653.html


Normally when I see pics of Paramounts I get bike-lusty thoughts, for some reason I can't put my finger on, I'm not getting that vibe here. It looks nice enough, but doesn't have that certain something for me. ...What Gives? Have PastorBob and others ruined me with pics of their collections?

RobbieTunes

BPJ, That color reminds me of norskagent's Paramount, a 1989 OS model. It is a beauty. Mine is a '92. I don't have the links to those models, but figure from about '89 to '93 or so. Not all are Tange, but that looks like norskagent's '89, and I think it's Columbus tubed, I'm not sure.

There are others who can fill you in, I'm sure. My '92 is a really smooth ride, very similar to the latter Ironman bikes. Well balanced, light, agile, and tracks well. Even with modern, much stiffer wheels, seems to just soak up the road.

BigPolishJimmy

Maybe it's just the poor picture quality--low resolution, uneven picture framing--on that craigslist ad. I'm not considering it as it's way too small for me, but usually the Paramounts will inspire a moment of 'gotta have it', but this one isn't. I'm sure it's all personal preference, I favor chromed fork ends and high-flange hubs, and chrome parts that glitter like jewery on a nicely proportioned frame. Quickly someone post a pic of a Paramount stat. I need a fix.

KonAaron Snake 

That's not doing a whole lot for me either. Some of it is the componentry...when I think Paramount, I think Campy Record. I wouldn't pass a 70s Paramount at the right price up, but it's much lower on the totem pole for me than some of the European stuff. If I did get one, it would be more because others desire it, not because I do. It's all in what you lusted for growing up...and my generation lusted for De Rosa, Merckx and Colnago. I think Paramount was Japanese by the time I was trying to ride competitively.

P4D 

I have an '89, though not an OS, but my paint scheme and more specifically the lettering is all different. Still, non-OS doesn't matter, that bike is the most fun bike I have to ride. I wish I had a pic handy for you.

PhotoJoe 

No requisite white garage door.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I agree Jimmy, I find that a lot of late 80's early 90's (PDG included) Paramounts don't really do it for me. Seems like I tend to prefer the 70's and older models and the more recent mid-late 90's
Waterford built ones.

BigPolishJimmy

PhotoJoe, You may be joking, but you may have something there. A white garage door would really make that red frame pop

KonAaron Snake 

+1

The chrome ones really are especially beautiful. I'm also very into the yellows.

PhotoJoe 

And cut down on the distracting background.

Mike Mills

Something is wrong.


That's a bike that is a Paramount in name only. It is just another, run-of-the-mill Japanese (?) bike that happens to have Paramount decals attached to it. Even the components are blah. I especially dislike the style of the crank.

If you need an 18" frame size, it's probably a good choice. Otherwise, why bother?

pastorbobnlnh 

It is just a matter of taste. A Paramount made in Waterford is a fine quality bike, regardless of the year produced. The styling of the decals and the choice of components shouldn't detract from the value, but they certainly do. Personally, I prefer the ride of my '83 over my '66.

RobbieTunes

Here we have it: Paramount Elitism, making Pedigree Pariah's out of Plain PDG Pals.

The Paramount lineup is as different as the generations they span, pure and simple.

As far as saying a bike is "a Paramount in name only," well, then, who "defined" what a Paramount is? Sounds to me like Schwinn did.

If Schwinn called it a Paramount, then it's a Paramount. Their name, their choice. A Tange OS Paramount is no less a Paramount than a chrome Columbus Paramount with Nervex lugs is no less than a custom Ti Waterford Paramount with 11-sp electronic DA. Hell, yeah, they're different (sorry, Bob).

Different times, different priorities, different marketing, all Paramounts. Glad for the difference, myself.

Compare the 60's Nova to a 70's Nova to an 80's Nova. Big-time differences in everything about them. Same with Paramounts.

Unless you have one of each, with very similar components and wheelsets, all in the same size, same saddle, bars, shifters, and you rode them all about the same time, distance, on the same day, with the same energy level, you really can't compare them, other than how they look.

My opinion, completely subjective, is that the early Paramounts must have been better bikes than those around them, because they are still in demand and popular. Rare, they are not. The chrome Paramounts are cool looking, and are popular as well.

Also my opinion, some of the OS Paramounts suffered from lower-end components and a decal design that ages poorly. Toss on some upper-end components, do what you can with the decals/paint job, and ride 'em. They ride well. Nothing wrong with the frames, and no one can definitively say whether Columbus, Reynolds, or Tange tubing would have made those Paramounts, or any other, a better or worse bike.

Would the Tange OS Paramounts, like the series 2, 3, 5, etc have been better with better components? Sure.
Would they have been affordable enough to make back the investment Schwinn and PDG made in OS tubing design? No.

You get used to what a bike is supposed to look like, and when it does not meet those expectations, you simply don't feel the same. Sounds like Schwinn couldn't win over the early followers. Not having that baggage, I like the OS Series just fine, as it fits my needs and riding choices. I'm building mine to look like a very similar carbon bike. They'll look alike, and only time will tell which one is "better."

Scooper

The decals are early nineties. Unfortunately, the photos are so poor that it's difficult to tell if the fork is unicrown (which would make it an imported PDG Series bike) or has a semi-sloping crown (which would probably mean it's a Waterford). The "SCHWINN" decal on the seat tube probably makes it a Waterford, as none ofthe PDG Series Paramounts I've seen had a Schwinn decal. If it's an early nineties Waterford, it could be Columbus SLX (small frames were SLX, larger ones were SL/SP mix) or True Temper OS. If it's a Waterford frame made between mid-1993 and September 1994, it's probably 753 OS.

Here's a January, 1994 Waterford Paramount built with 753 OS tubing and repainted by Waterford using '93 decals.

norskagent

Are you saying it's a fake paramount, or the later "pdg" series asian type?

RobbieTunes

I think I could hold my prejudices aside long enough to steal Scooper's bike....

and my favorite Paramount is norskagent's. Hands down.

BigPolishJimmy

All this is fine and good, but I think--for me at least--it's not the year, or the components, but this specific bike. I do think Pastor Bob and the other Paramount owners on this board have spoiled me. When I see a pic of a Paramount I expect, ...well more. You could take the bike in the original posted link, and do the following and I would probably feel differently. 1, - clean it, the chain and rear cluster look grody, clean that mess, and oil it up with a good oil. 2, - fresh bar tape, make it nice. 3, - new tires, makes it glow. 4, - lose that saddle, get something a tad nicer(or maybe it's just the angle, but the saddle looks to big and blocky). 5, - take the time to set up a nice photo. That bike could be a stunner. I've come to expect these things. This is a Paramount, the best of the best of the Schwinn road bike line up and I want to see it.

BigPolishJimmy

Ahhh... thank you, now there is the Paramount glow, what a bike photo should be.

norskagent

Thanks Robbie! since you mention it:

It's an '89 waterford OS 8spd dura ace. Modern wheels and saddle. I think the tubing is true temper, but I'm not positive.

BigPolishJimmy

Yep, that's it... the drool factor ... there it is pride in ownership.

pastorbobnlnh 

Oh what the heck since we're showing off our dramatic Paramount pics. A Black Paramount on White (from the end of this March).

PhotoJoe 

Hope you don't mind - I did a quick color correction to make the colors pop. Nice shot!

Mike Mills

Good post, too bad you're wrong on all counts. ;-)




(j/k)



I do think you miss the OP's point (and mine). Paramounts were the paramount back in the day. They never were perfect but, as you pointed out, they were better than most of their competition (and bore the Schwinn name which people respected and trusted).

Later on, neither was true. Paramounts became rather run of the mill, if for no other reason than the competition caught up and was making fine bicycles. It is when a bike company begins to call one model a Paramount without it being truly distinguished, they cheapen the name, they lose cachet. After all, an 80's Nova is unlike a 60's Nova and always will be. It's not because a 60's Nova was perfect, either. It is, in part, because an 80's Nova is just a re-badged Toyota* with a different trim package.

If this is a US-made, Waterford bike, that's possibly different. I couldn't tell that from the photos. Even if it is, I don't like the looks of the crank and other components. I will admit that is a purely aesthetic call on my part, as the Shimano 600 components always work very well.


What I want to know from the OP is this - do you need a small frame like that?





*... or whatever they were.

miamijim

If I were to take the decals off both a Waterford and Panasonic Paramount 99% of people wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

norskagent

first glance - unicrown vs sloping front fork.