idotel

bought this bike for 60 bucks not knowing it's history and now love it.

I have cleaned a repacked the cottered BB but in the process destroyed one of the beautiful cotter pins it came with. Not happy with the weight or noisy cottered BB I would like to replace it with a more modern BB, sealed if possible. The problem tends to be that I am not sure if the Dutch Made GP's came with the proprietary Raleigh threading that people dislike. There are my threads on Releighs but some tend to conflict regarding the Dutch made Raleighs.

Thank you all well in advance.

https://picasaweb.google.com/IDotel/1...08126849802946

top506

The Dutch-made Raleigh GP that passed through my hands a few years back had standard English threading.
Top

custermustache

Standard. I'm building one now.

leecycle

+1 My mid-70s (1974?) Gazelle built Grand Prix has ISO 1.37 in x 24 TPI threading that I converted to cotterless square taper crank; I kept the cups since they were in good condition and used a "5" series spindle. Here the BF thread with pictures of it: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...hlight=raleigh

sailorbenjamin

My Gazelle GP is 24tpi 68mm just like all the Japanese roadbikes and all the english except Raleigh. I'm gonna steal the BB out of a kids size Magna dirt bike that I'm parting out. There's one of those in every dumpster.

idotel

I will probably put a Shimano UN54 68x125mm. Thanks for all the help

idotel

This is odd but the treading is not standard English like I thought it would be. I wasn't able to spin in the new BB. It was binding after just a few threads leading me to believe the pitch is different then standard English. I noticed that it was very strange the non-drive side is right side threaded. I always thought bike manufactures avoided right sided threading on the non drive side to keep the cups from loosening themselves while riding. STBM.

GrayJay

Right hand thread on left side is likely french or italian thread, most likely french as italian shell is larger diameter and would be odviously loose. No idea how french thread would wind up on a dutch bike.

Are you sure the left side is right handed thread? Raleigh proprietary BB is threaded lefty for left side but it is a finer pitch than english so threads would bind as you describe with an english BB shell.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

sailorbenjamin

I've got a pair of 26 tpi raleigh cups you could try. While you have the cups out, you could hold them up to a ruler and count or take them to a machinist or mechanic and use a thread guage. I've got a thread guage, too but i'm reluctant to lend it out so you'd have to come across the river to try it.

idotel

So very sorry about the previous post. I am also working on a Nishiki and got my post mixed up. DOH!. Damn Nishiki... I still find very odd but what can you do.

idotel

Sorry for confusing everyone before. I finally get around to changing out the BB on my Raleigh Grand Prix. It is in fact 26tpi threading. I would really like sealed BB but looks like I will have to keep the original cups and change the spindle (ugly) or re-tap the BB (scary).

gbalke

I'm resurecting this thread to try and get a difinitive answer. As I see it, top 506, custermustashe, leecycle and sailorbenjamin all agree on the BB being 24tpi, only idotel says 26tpi.

I would like to have your comments on the head set threading of Gazelle made Raleigh Grand Prix's. Is it 24tpi or 26tpi? I'd like to pass this information on to Kurt so he can add it to his new Headbadge page dedicatd to the Gazzelle built Raleigh Grand Prix.

cudak888 

Idotel seemed to give a perfect description of how one would expect a 24tpi cup to behave in 26tpi threads; likewise, he definitely does have a Gazelle variant of the Grand Prix (for most folks would assume Nottingham production unless they found the Gazelle-manufacture decal).

Though I'm all for more examples, I dare say - just like the Nottingham Super Courses - you're liable to find the Gazelle Grand Prix frames with either threading.

-Kurt

P.S.: Thanks for going to bat for me, gbalke - I can use all the help I can get.

idotel

Definitely a early 70's Dutch Made Grand Prix
Definitely 26tpi threading
Definitely annoying to work with the BB
Definitely a great bike.

Raleigh Grand Prix I just can't quit you! hahaha.

leecycle

Headset threading on my 1974 Gazelle made Grand Prix is 26tpi. Possibly the forks were made in Nottingham and shipped to Gazelle?

wrk101

I had 26tpi on the 1979 (estimate on age) Raleigh Record Ace I had. +1 Annoying.

idotel

Usually the threading on the BB and the headset are the same (usually). The tooling being used at Gazelle factory at the time they made my Grand Prix was 26tpi. It's safe to assume that if you have a 26tpi BB then you have a 26tpi headset.

gbalke

Then how do you explain the fact that top 506, custermustashe, leecycle and sailorbenjamin all agreed on their BBs being 24tpi?

Unless you have first hand knowledge that the tooling Gazelle had was 26tpi, I wouldn't make the statement you just did. Leecycle's idea makes more sense: Possibly the forks were made in Nottingham and shipped to Gazelle? Having spent 30 years in various aspects of manufacturing, I can honestly state from personal experience that this does in fact happen. OEM companies do send components to secondary supplier/vendors; Boeing does it, GM and Ford do it. In all likelyhood, Raleigh did it as well.

cudak888 

NO. Regardless of BB threading, the steerers are 26tpi. Unlike the upper-end Raleigh BB's, the Grand Prix, Record, Sports, Sprite, et. al. used the same proprietary 26TPI Raleigh headset. If Gazelle examples use 26tpi as well, neither the Holland or Nottingham plants would have reason to produce a 24tpi version of the headset, for - unlike the BB's, which were used on higher-end machines that demand the industry standard 24tpi and the lower-end stuff - said headsets were only used on the basic Raleigh lineup.

Whether Gazelle made the forks or Nottingham may never be answered.

-Kurt

idotel

I am getting tired of talking about Raleigh threading. (disclaimer) - "From what I heard" A lot of the low end Raleighs used 26tpi threading even though Gazelle was making bikes at the time with 24tpi threading. So when I said the tooling Gazelle was using I should have specified the models because they were in fact making some bikes with 24tpi threading. I think Gazelle making raleighs with the 26tpi was done to follow the standard by Raleigh but, this wasn't always the case and that's why there is so much confusion all the time. I heard it's possible to have a raleigh made outside of the Nottingham factory with either 24tpi or 26tpi threading and a mix of 26tpi / 24tpi threading for the headset and BB but, I haven't seen it. Anyways big respect to all my fellow bike geeks. Without you guys I'd be flying blind all the time.

cudak888 

Look at it this way: Caveat emptor. Expect 26 or 24tpi anywhere, anytime, under any circumstances, and also be prepared to expect it with any other thread combination.

It isn't that hard to live with it that way - if it isn't 26tpi, it's 24tpi. Simple as that. We're making a big production out of something that can be answered in three seconds with a thread checker or a headset/BB of known threading.

-Kurt

NeilQ

I've learned a lot (more than I wanted to have to learn) tonight. I bought a ~1968 Cresent frame on eBay. Reynolds 531 throughout and Nervex lugs - sweet! Now I'm spending a king's ransom on parts. I got a cheap thread gauge set and worked out I needed a French BB - took two attempts to get the right French Campy BB (thin-wall cups fit, others didn't). The frame came with very basic-looking headset installed with the forks, so I bought 3 nice French headsets (2 Stronglights, one Campy), not sure which would be best. When I couldn't get the head tube races out with the sophisticated hammer-and-screwdriver method, I bought a nice race remover, which came tonight. The races came right out ... all excited, I tried to install each of my fancy headsets in turn, but none of the threaded lock nuts would go onto the fork threads. Then I noticed the slot in the steerer tube's threaded section - hmmm, prolly not French after all (they have a flattened section, not a cut-out). So, out came the thread gauges ... what??? ... it's 26 tpi?? Sure enough, I found this bulletin and other pages tonight and confirmed I have a weird-Harold 'Raleigh' Whitworth threaded steerer tube! I'm determined to get a nice headset, but it looks like I'll have to keep the old plain lock nut. Ahhh, old bikes - gotta love them!

sailorbenjamin

Best of luck Neil, you'll just love it that much more when you've got it figured all out. And you'll have a nice pile of parts that's just beggin for a frame when you get done.

NeilQ

Minor miracle - I went to bed last night thinking it might take a while to find what I need. I did a quick search on eBay this morning, and what did I find? A full headset off a 1960s Raleigh road bike with 26 tpi threading. The seller even warned people that it was not the normal 24 tpi type. You can imagine how quickly I typed to win that auction (Buy It Now for just $25 - deal!!).
Hey, SailorBenjamin. I'm a kiwi, so you can guess I'm an avid sailor. But, I live in east TN and the only sailing available is in the dammed TN river, but I go out as much as possible. I can't wait to retire to the NC coast and do some real sailing again!

lord_athlon

Ive used steel tange Levin headsets on 26 tpi forks. There are only three or four threads on the upper race, so just use the raleigh locknut.