Originally Posted by repechage (Post 10830700)

The real reason to avoid cyclart is to avoid having that ugly cyclart logo transfer on the chain stay.

Originally Posted by Mr IGH (Post 10831407)

Yes, and you knew it when he started balking. Lesson learned?

Originally Posted by repechage (Post 10830675)

I checked the CR list archives, those were probably off list comments, but probably accurate descriptions of the results. I would be bummed if I was in your position too, your cost will be probably be $200 round trip, you will be back where you started and out $200. Not a happy expenditure.

So, why not ask this forum or the CR list for recent recommendations of similar work before spending this money, time and effort?

Originally Posted by repechage (Post 10831526)

Cyclart responded to this parallel thread on the CR list today.

I will repeat that I think both could have thought through their approach and arrived at a conclusion much cheaper than they have it appears. Here is the cyclart reply:

From: Greg Reiche <shop(AT)cyclart.com>
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:28:52 -0400
Subject: [CR] FW: Disappointing Cyclart experience

Dear List,

Jim asked me to send his reply to Paul's post for him.

Greg Reiche
CyclArt
Vista, CA USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cunningham
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:29 PM
To: Greg Reiche
Subject: RE: [CR] Disappointing Cyclart experience

As always, there are two sides to each story. Putting aside the issue of
whether Paul's original post is appropriate for the CR list, much less the
best way to resolve his problem, we feel it's in everyone's interest to
share our side, to explain the process and values by which we make our
recommendations.

As with all customers in the preliminary stages of the process, Paul has
sent us no money, and has received our best advice. We have never sent
Paul an estimate for a "cheap powdercoat." The estimate we sent was for a
top tube dent repair and complete refinish with accurate decals. The
frame would look like new. We understand and respect that he wants the
original finish preserved, because it's really not that bad and the
blemishes all speak to his history with the bike, so we offered to clean,
wax and preserve his original finish. What we declined to do was a
half-assed job that would look all wrong. We can do better.

We do many touch-ups or "Partials" at CyclArt. Our objective is to make
the damaged area appear that it was never damaged. If, in our professional
opinion, we can't do a seamless undetectable repair, we won't do it. If
someone just wants to cover the damaged area to protect it, and make it
less conspicuous, we coach them on how to do it themselves.

When I first spoke to Paul about a dent repair and touch-up I asked, as I
always do, if the paint outside the damaged areas was unblemished. We do
not recommend touch-ups on frames with many little blemishes because the
repaired area would be conspicuous in its lack of blemishes, and it is
hard to decide where to stop the repair. A good candidate for a partial
has an almost blemish-free finish with a few areas that need attention. A
poor candidate is a frame with many small blemishes, because the time
involved in matching and blending-in each damaged area often exceeds the
time it takes to do a complete refinish.

When the frame arrived, the top tube dent was as expected, no real problem
there. But we expected a couple of other bad spots and an otherwise
unblemished frame. What we received is a frame with tiny nicks amd
scratches everywhere. There is not a single square inch on the frame or
fork anywhere that is not blemished. Still, all the blemishes are minor,
in our opinion. Since the frame shows its "experience," we saw really no
reason to paint it unless one wants it returned to new condition.

The problem in this case is that Paul asked us to repair the top tube, the
right chainstay, an area under the front derailleur and bottom bracket,
and the front and rear dropout areas. If we did as requested, Paul's
frame would have obvious touch-ups because these are the areas that
typically have more wear, but would be appear new, while the rest of the
frame would show its age. Furthermore, since there are blemishes on every
square centimeter of the fork and stays, we could not find a good place to
stop the touch-up.

When the frame first arrived, we expressed these concerns to Paul, and he
stressed (as he has in his post) the low value of the frame, saying "it
does not have to be perfect." It's not a question of perfection though;
doing what he asks makes the frame look worse than doing nothing at all.

Our advice was that we should clean, wax and preserve his existing finish.
After all, the dent is small and not structural. With all the concern
about the history of the frame, it seems to be part of that history.
Alternatively, we can do a complete and accurate restoration, for less
that Paul expected. We gave him an estimate for the latter. The only
other approach would be to do a seamless touch-up and "Cycltique" of the
touched-up areas so they are not conspicuous, but this is more
time-consuming and expensive than the complete refinish and would not look
much different from what he has now except for the dent repair.

We DO understand passion and history and owner's attachment to a bicycle
frame. That is why we do what we do! We simply declined to do a job
would likely result in dissatisfaction for both our craftspeople and the owner.

Jim Cunningham
CyclArt, Inc.
2590 Pioneer Avenue
Suite A
Vista, CA 92081-8427

760-599-1016

www.CyclArt.com

Originally Posted by cyclotoine (Post 10833132)

I'm a little confused. Jim seems quite clear and the OP does not. Did you read what he wrote? He said touch up was not possible. Touch up is not putting little dabs on paint on dings and scratches it is refinishing areas of the bike and blending it in. Jim stated that there were nicks on every square inch and that to touch it up would leave a blotchy effect of fresh and old areas. That would look like crap! Where is this confusion coming from? He has stated that a touch-up requires the rest of the bike to be in excellent to flawless condition and the OPs bike isn't, there for any touch-up including "cycleTique" is not possible or even reasonable. I'd turn it down, no question.