Disappointing Cyclart experience
 

Hi all,

I sent my 1985 Bianchi Veloce to Cyclart for repair. It's a middle of the road model that doesn't have much monetary value, but it was my first real bike and I won a number of races with it when I was a kid; so it has a great deal of sentimental value. The top tube has a minor dent from a collision I had with a car 25 years ago that I've wanted to have repaired ever since. A number of people recommended Cyclart so I emailed Jim Cunningham.

I told him what I wanted done, remove the dent, keep the existing paint, and touch up some of the larger eyesores. He said that was a pretty basic repair and suggested I send it to him for an estimate. When I eventually got the estimate, it was for a dent repair and a cheap powder coat. I called Jim and explained to him how keeping the original paint was very important to me, that I didn't mind if it didn't come out perfect.

You could tell from the conversation he didn't want to be bothered, going on about how his painters/artists wouldn't find much motivation from such a job, that there was little satisfaction or gratification to be had from such a project. After I told him how much the bike meant to me, he appeared to understand and accepted to give me a quote for the work requested. Several few weeks later, Jim obviously changed his mind; I got a mail from Susan with the original estimate (dent removal plus re-finish).

I contacted Cyclart once again asking for a quote for a complete CycleTique treatment for the frame realizing it would be costly. Apparently, Cyclart has no interest in doing the work and offered to send me back the frame as is.

Were my expectations too high? I was willing to spend considerably more than what the bike was worth for a simple frame repair and explained it to them long before I ever sent them the frame. I wrongly assumed Cyclart would understand the passion emotion and history that an owner can have with a particular bike; what a disappointment.

Could someone recommend a shop that would do such a repair?


Paul

Hi Paul,

That is frustrating!

Try Noah at Velo Colour in Toronto, amazing work and no attitude.

http://www.velocolour.com/

vjp

Sounds like they simply don't want to be bothered with your bike (obviously). They should send the frame back to you at their expense....better to find this out now than after their half-arsed, unmotivated "repairs". You're the customer. If you're willing to pay the price their satisfaction simply isn't part of the equation.

If you can't find someone closer, try this:

http://home.windstream.net/franklinframe/

J

I suspect that unfortunately, you might have caught them at a very busy time with probably many bikes lined up on their repair stations and customers clamoring for their bikes to hopefully be back to them in time for the summer riding season. Still does not excuse such treatment of a customer with very specific needs and is willing to pay for any of the services, but it's just one of those "human things" that sometimes happens. Maybe a re-engagement with the management to state again what your needs are might have them change their minds. Hope it eventually works out and you get you bike fixed up! The have to remember that it's satisfying customers with special need like you do that sets the best companies apart from the others.

Chombi

Sometimes the best deal is the one that never gets made.

It sounds like Cyclart just doesn't seem like they could send you back a frame that they could be proud of (not your bike, but the touchup work).

I turn down deals all the time where my clients expectation and my expectation don't mesh.

I told them that I was in no rush and to take all the time they needed...

One word: BILENKY.

Why not just send it to Marinoni for the repair? They'll replace the damaged tube no problem, you'll lose a lot of the original paint though.

While I understand your point, I could have saved the $100 in shipping and all the hasstles and frustrations if they had told me this up front. I told Jim before sending him the frame I wanted to keep the original paint. He claimed that it was a basic repair and that they were touch-up experts (it also says so on their website - "Touch-ups are a specialty here. We can repair original finishes") I guess they left out the part "except when we don't feel like it". Money wasn't an issue either, I was willing to pay for a complete retouching job (part of what they call CyleTique). It was already established that the bike was a run of the mill mid-80's Bianchi - I wonder if I would have received similar treatement had I sent them one of my vintage De Rosa's or my Molteni Merckx.

- Paul

Giuseppe Marinoni does great work. He repaired a Colnago of mine and it came back flawless; not to mention how pleasant it always is to deal with him his wife and their son. Unfortunately they don't match paint or do touch up work and I really want to keep it as original as possible.

Bilenky does touch up work and matches paint. You'll pay for it, but they'll do it.

I have a different point of view on this one... and I think that you folks may be missing the real reason for Cyclart's reluctance to do the job.

Those guys do some top shelf work, and they are justifiably proud of what they do. And in order to maintain their reputation, they can not turn out work that looks substandard... even if the customer requests it.

What if you request that they do the job your way? You get what you want... but you take the bike to the local club gathering. When you gaze on the bike through your sentimental lens, it looks wonderful to you. But to another critical eye, all they see is the scarred paint that wasn't stripped... the marred finish that wasn't covered with fresh paint. And Cyclart's name is quickly tarnished... all because they agreed to do the job your way.

I have a lifelong friend who does auto painting... high end stuff. He could make tons of cash by shoving quick and dirty paint jobs out the door. He can make more money per hour on quick jobs than he can on a $20,000 custom paint job that takes weeks of work to get juuuust right. But he refuses the quick jobs in order to preserve his reputation as a craftsman... he'd rather that you take your car to Maaco if you want a $300 paint job.

Maybe Cyclart has the same view on artisan work.

From Cyclart's web site (restoration section)
Bold is my edit.
Sounds like they offer the service, I have no experience with Cyclart other than a query about some
Eisentraut decals so I won't comment on their business practices.
I've seen Bilenky's work and I would not hesitate to recommend them.

Cyclart really couldn't assess the job until they saw the frame; so you really can't put much stock in whatever they told you before you sent it to them. Once they saw what was involved, they decided to decline it. Why? I don't know, and I wouldn't necessarily take their reasons at face value. What matters is: they didn't want to do it, and you couldn't make them want to. I can't really fault them for that.

Aside from that, I suspect you're better off this way. I'm not actually a big fan of Cyclart's work (but that's for another thread).

The 'elitist' in them has come out.....

I turn down work too. For any number of reasons, but often it is when the potential client is not listening to me, and I can see that the expectations are not aligned with what can be done.

That said, these are often face to face meetings, or after an exchange of information that I know is meaningful. The good thing here is apparently work has not started. Perhaps they were being too honest with you, just not soon enough. I would think after a number of emails and images of the frame in its current state that this conclusion could have been arrived at prior to it being send over the border.

Color matching older paint I will say is tough, and the expectations are probably framed in reference to an autobody repair, where a known color of a late model car can be matched very close indeed, this is because the auto manufacturers push the various paint makers to match their standards with few exceptions. Bicycles are a not documented in comparison very well.

To play the devil's advocate, lets say they have to custom match the color, how much time to do this? one hour? two? Will they have to order a special toner from say House of Color to make it? With modern paint systems, getting to assess a comparable color might also include spraying the clear over it, while the color is not mentioned, Bianchi was doing this slightly pearl finish to their celeste (they might still be) that would be a terror to match or blend.

Communication is the key, face to face is best. Everything else falls short.

I will say after all that, the cyclart estimate process I reviewed way back would make me shy away from ever using them, way too much leeway. I think in many cases especially with their long term experience that they should be able to hold to a price, especially when no subletting is needed like chrome plating.

While you may have a point I personally, if that's the case, think it's a load of crap.

The OP wasn't expecting his mid-level Bianchi to be turned into his Molteni. He described the bike, it's condition, and his desires and why to the folks at Cyclart. When Cyclart received the frame there should have been no suprises. The OP had specific requirements, fully explained in advance, that Cyclart decided at a later time that they were unwilling to meet. Personally I would think the sentimental value would more motivate a true craftsman....it's not like this is a job that's going to be turned for a high dollar bike sale and profit. If they are "artisans" as you seem to think why in the world would they recommend a powder coat that the OP could get in dozens of places local to him anyway.

Long story short, they had all the info they needed to accept or turn down the job long before the frame was sent if they were going to be that hoidy toidy about it. And in the end, the customer was willing to pay the price....he wasn't even expecting a mid-level price to work on a mid-level bike.

Their customer service sucked.

Why don't you do it yourself, especially if it doesn't have to be perfect? Show us a picture and we'll tell you how.

"a man has got to know his limitations..."

Farming it out is reasonable.

It is interesting that a parallel thread has shown up on the CR list, so this may be a gripe broadcast vehicle too.

Show us a picture and we'll tell you how anyhow...just for fun. There's a lot of know-how in these parts.

Would love to do it myself, just unsure of how to remove the dent from the toptube (the handlebar hit the tube when I fell). Cyclart still has my frame but I'll post pictures as soon as i get it back.

I think this statement might show the crux of the problem. A reasonable man would have sent images of the frame, maybe some initial and some follow on images to the painter before shipping it south of the border. And those images would be archived for reference if the job went sour.

Why, with Cyclart's reputation and what appears to be frank and honest discussion about what the OP wanted, what the bike was, and the condition it was in if Cyclart, as has been suggested, was just "too good" to work on this frame and do what the OP, er, paying customer wanted, they could have refused from the start. They knew the customer wanted to retain as much paint as possible and then try to talk him into a powdercoat? What kind of "craftsmanship" is that?

They told you the flat-out truth. They did you a favor. What's your problem?