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Solutions for a short rider

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Solutions for a short rider

Old 07-05-10, 07:01 AM
  #51  
Grim
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Grim, first lemme thank you for addressing my points directly. I appreciate that.

Second, lemme say you are totally right in what you say. I disagree, however, with some of what you didn't say.

As for crank arm length and BB height, yes, you hit the nail on the head. But "quality" is dispensible. You can get perfectly good BMX cranks in 140, 145, 150, 155, etc. sizes. It's a little trickier to find cranks drilled for triples, but this too can be done. There's a quite cheap 'Forza' crank that takes 130 BCD rings and a third ring, available in 145 and 155. Lovely it ain't; perfectly functional it is.

Okay, my last paragraph is not really fair; you should ask: Were these available 20 years ago? Dunno. But I have no doubt they would have been available had Terry propositioned the manufacturers. Anyway, there certainly were 175 cranks that could be lopped down the customary 22 mm to 153's to fit a smaller rider. My real beef with Terry is that she didn't see this as necessary; sure, let a 5' woman hammer a 170 crank, while I, a 6' man, prefer 150's. She'll just 'spin' along at 50 rpm and hate cycling. No problem. I think the fact is, Terry either didn't think of this, or didn't care about her customer enough; either way, fail.


As for gearing, yes, it is true, a 14T cog was for many years the smallest you could find on any freewheel, and a 13T on a Sturmey Archer hub was pretty unusual. But again, had Terry cared about her customers she could have found a manufacturer who would produce some 56T or 60T chain rings. It's not complicated; it's only expensive if you want one of them. Order a few hundred, and I have no doubt the price will drop. Aside from that, the classic 14/52 combo is way overgeared. It's not just that most riders don't need it; but most riders are better off without it. Learn to spin, dammit! I can't blame Terry for not recognizing this, since no one else seemed to get it; but still, fact remains, she either didn't get it or figured her customers wouldn't.

Did Terry really investigate these possibilities? I don't know. If not, why not? I don't know that either. I'd be interested.

I do know that some ten or twelve years ago my wife got an advertising flyer from Terry, showing these odd looking bikes of hers, and my wife's reaction was: why can't I have a bike designed for my geometry? It got her thinking about what she needed, and what she was willing to spend; all this was good. We did some research and found a store that carried Terry bikes. We went there. She test rode one of those strange looking 700/24 bikes. Then she rode a 650c Bianchi, same frame size as the Terry. She preferred the latter, bought it, and still rides it. Why? Dunno. But the fact remains, that by producing something strange looking, which catches the eye, Terry opened my wife's eyes to the fact that her needs were not being met by what she was riding. For this, I salute Terry. For her bicycle design, well, what do I know, I'm a man!
Terry got her start because she herself is a sub 5ft rider. She started building frames for herself when she couldn't find anything readily available. I'm sure she got the idea from somewhere about the 24 front but a bike like that was not something you could walk into the LBS and buy so she made one. Then her friends wanted one and she was in the bike business.

Now we are talking 80's here so no internet to be able to readily see what was available world wide.

I suspect it all revolves around cost. Off the shelf 165mm was the common mass produced part of the time that was readily available to the Japanese manufacture she got to build her frames....simple as that.

She provided the frame geometry that actually uses common lugs and as was the practice in the bike boom days I am sure the manufacture had a whole line of catalog parts packages she could pick to build with. Deviating from that would have cost more and when her mid line bikes were $500 in the late 80's because of the custom frame geometry I am sure it just came down to trying to be financially competitive. She wasn't producing enough at that point to get the price brake on custom cranks.

You look at any of the House brand bikes of the 70's and 80's it was not uncommon that you find another brand that was essentially the same bike. I had a Corsaro mixte (House brand for Greggs bikes in Seattle) that was obviously built by Miyata and it has the exact same components that would come on a 83 Miyata 210. It is a package.

I wonder how much Sheldon had to do with Terry getting off the ground. You know that had to be friends probably through Harriett. I bet Harris was the first store selling Terry bikes.

My Wifes 1987 Gambit. 1987 was the year Terry started to take off and went with mass production out of Japan. Before that most of her bikes were low run hand built by local builders.
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Last edited by Grim; 07-05-10 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 07-15-10, 07:42 PM
  #52  
RobE30
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Probably comparable to a Varsity but.... what do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NISHIKI-INTERNAT...item19bd8a6412
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Old 07-15-10, 08:36 PM
  #53  
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My daughter rides a 90's era Terry and loves it (she's about 4'11). She found it used on the Terry web site forums. I thought Terry was the only one to build bikes this way until I found my wife's bike on eBay (she's also height deprived). It's a NOS late 80's Miyata 615. They had a small frame that used a 24" wheel in front, 27" in back. A little odd looking but it has a real sweet frame. Both these bike designs work great for short female riders.

The reason for the smaller wheel in front is so the frame could be built small enough, with a short enough top tube, without having a larger wheel hitting the frame.

Last edited by sesmith; 07-15-10 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 07-15-10, 08:43 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by RobE30 View Post
Probably comparable to a Varsity but.... what do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NISHIKI-INTERNAT...item19bd8a6412
Stay the hey away
(fot that price and shipping from KY... gee)
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Old 07-15-10, 09:11 PM
  #55  
RobE30
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I know.... I looked into a Dawes in Boston (see c&v appraisals a week ago) and haven't heard much back from the seller. E, you didn't just pick up a small Lotus mixte off fleabay a day or so ago did you? When are we going riding?! Although w/ this humidity the only riding I'm doing is @ Jordan Creek (in the creek).

Oh and I found a decent looking Terry but, it's in Austin TX and she wants $200 (cyclone 2 comps). I really need someone to look @ it before I drop that much cash sight unseen.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:21 PM
  #56  
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I think his buy it now price is ridiculous! It is a High Ten frame. Lower end components. On CL that's a $120 bike on the high end. You can do a LOT better. The Philly CL has some really good deals if she will go for a Mixtee and you can commit to the drive.

Better frame.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1845242415.html
$75 and no worse then the Ebay bike.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1845210065.html
Might have some luck with these 75 bikes.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1843828120.html
Bummer this is a 51cm Terry from late 90's early 2000's. Might be a little big. Price is a bit high but full 105.
http://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/1838091751.html
Decent Peugot Mixtee at a decent price. Looks very clean and ready to ride.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1842910919.html

Here you go! 43cm Fuji Touring with RSX brifters for $375. Thats a good bike. Price is not out of line for what that is and I bet you could wave $300-$325 and get this. 7speed triple RSX brifters will bring 100-125 all day on Ebay.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1841680889.html

Ohh hell willing to drive a little farther? here is another identical in DE for smoking deal price of $200.
http://delaware.craigslist.org/bik/1787569621.html

You know what that may be the same bike being flipped. You might see if you can get the mto fess up and then see if they will take under $300 if it is the same bike.

No pic but at that price it might be worth checking on.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1840016379.html

Worth checking on. The mid 80's were made by Giant and decent enough frames.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1832093873.html

Project
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/1830689088.html
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Old 07-15-10, 09:25 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by RobE30 View Post
I know.... I looked into a Dawes in Boston (see c&v appraisals a week ago) and haven't heard much back from the seller. E, you didn't just pick up a small Lotus mixte off fleabay a day or so ago did you? When are we going riding?! Although w/ this humidity the only riding I'm doing is @ Jordan Creek (in the creek).

Oh and I found a decent looking Terry but, it's in Austin TX and she wants $200 (cyclone 2 comps). I really need someone to look @ it before I drop that much cash sight unseen.
Frankly, I think that your plan B (the new bike that fits, might be it - do the math)

No. I haven't picked a bike for a while. About when we are going riding? There is a charity ride in Kutztown Aug 7th (or 8th) that we are are planning on doing. Easy 25 miler. See you there?

And I am keeping my eyes open for a bike that might fit...
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Old 07-16-10, 10:23 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Grim View Post
Now lets get into gearing. Everything revolves around the rear wheel size.
Pun!

27-700c being the most common size in a competitive bicycle. That right there means for a short person to be competitive they are forced to those sizes or they are at a major gearing disadvantage.
53T chainwheel, 9T rear cog, ISO28x451 tires: top gear ratio 119 gear inches.
52T chainwheel, 12T rear cog, ISO23x622 tires: top gear ratio 114 gear inches.

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Old 07-16-10, 10:52 AM
  #59  
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As I understand it the problem your wife has is that that she want to be able to touch the ground when sat on the saddle? That will not be possible unless you have a custom frame built with a much lower BB height - say 9.5in which will also need short cranks - probably 150mm. What she wants to do could then be possible with sloping TT design frame.
But the solution at a reasonable price is to teach her how to get in and out of the saddle when starting up and stopping - almost all shorter legged riders, certainly those riding frames sub 54cm have to learn this if they are to have the saddle at the correct height for pedalling...
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Old 07-16-10, 11:31 AM
  #60  
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Another possibility is to put 26" wheels on a frame designed for 27" wheels, like I did on my Lambert; this lowers the BB and top tube considerably, depending on tire width of course. You would need to use hub brakes, which is no great hardship, and of course short cranks-- which I heartily recommend for everyone. My Lambert has 140's:
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Old 07-16-10, 02:12 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
You would need to use hub brakes, which is no great hardship, and of course short cranks-- which I heartily recommend for everyone. My Lambert has 140's
Nice ride. Why do you recommend short cranks for everyone?
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Old 07-16-10, 03:02 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Pun!



53T chainwheel, 9T rear cog, ISO28x451 tires: top gear ratio 119 gear inches.
52T chainwheel, 12T rear cog, ISO23x622 tires: top gear ratio 114 gear inches.

tcs
You are proving my point. Not sure what your point is of the post other then that.

If you are trying to prove the gearing then prove to me that you can get a cassette with a 9 tooth gear. They don't exist. Till the late 80's when Shimano came out with the modern HG Cassett set ups the small gear was usually a 13 or 14.
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Old 07-16-10, 03:20 PM
  #63  
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I did a project at school on fitting short people, lots of willing college girls to participate.
Basically 650c or 650b is the best size wheel to get things in a good fit. Maybe even an old mtb, fitted with road tires, a lot of the older rigid bikes had short top tubes in the smallest sizes.
With 700c a compromise is required, slack head angle, steep seat angle, toe clip overlap, and maybe bars that are too high.
The Terry solution works too, KHS also made bikes this way with the 24" front wheel but I don't like the handling.
Most of these folk should be on 165 mm cranks too, but hard to locate those or often expensive.
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Old 07-16-10, 05:09 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Another possibility is to put 26" wheels on a frame designed for 27" wheels, like I did on my Lambert; this lowers the BB and top tube considerably, depending on tire width of course. You would need to use hub brakes, which is no great hardship, and of course short cranks-- which I heartily recommend for everyone. My Lambert has 140's:
The problem with this approach, esp. if you have a small frame as the starting material is that the BB will drop so low that even with 165mm crank arms, any sort of pedal cage will likely scrape the pavement. For a small bike with 165mm cranks in 27 inch wheels, you need to go 162.5mm or even 160mm and good luck trying to locate those ones Even 165mm are selling at a huge premium these days.
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Old 07-17-10, 02:22 AM
  #65  
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150mm is far closer to what is needed for many really short riders and are not too hard to come by - try googling 150mm chainset. 165mm is simply too little difference. I have found over the years in coaching youth riders that about 0.21 of inner leg length (crotch to floor) makes for about the correct leg length. My experience has also been confirmed by others such as Chris Juden of the CTC in the UK. This results in the following:

Inner Crank
leg length
length
(cm) (mm)
71–72 150
73–74 155
75–76 160
77–78 165

Actual ideal length does vary a little depending on ratio of thigh/shin length, pedalling style, shoe size etc

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Old 07-17-10, 05:51 AM
  #66  
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In answer to an earlier question, I have found that a 700C to 650B conversion does NOT make a huge difference in sizing as you typically run fatter 650B wheels.
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Old 07-17-10, 06:00 AM
  #67  
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That certainly can be true - the difference in bottom bracket height using identical section tyres between 700C and 650B would be 19mm which is 0.75in – in practice the difference is likely to be 0.5in or a bit less. However if you use MTB sized wheels (559mm BSD) the BB height is likely to be lowered by about 0.75in which is distinctly useful. You really need then to use brazed V-brakes or cantis... I have also gone the other way when building a bike for fixed gear – using a MTB frame with 700C wheels – this provides a higher BB which gives excellent cornering clearance…
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Old 07-17-10, 07:37 AM
  #68  
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I'm 5'2" and got a K2 T-9 Twister women's specific road bike a few years ago. I've put a couple thousand miles on it now, including a 500 mile tour, and love this bike more and more every time I get on it!! They're not being made any longer but I've seen them on line in close-out and you see them come around used from time to time at very reasonable prices.
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