I'm attempting to teach myself to true wheels. I successfully trued the front, but I made a complete mess out of the rear. I'm thinking of backing the tension off all the spokes and starting over. Would this be a good idea. Can i mess up the dish doing this.

Thanks

Any adjustment can mess up the dish if it's not done right. I would start by plucking the spokes and listening to the pitch, then loosening the tightest ones (or tightening the loosest ones if the spokes are generally too loose). See if that brings it closer to true. Assuming the rim isn't bent, the spoke tension should be fairly even around the wheel and the pitch of each spoke should be in the same ballpark, probably not exactly the same but close. Obviously, the drive side will be of higher pitch than the non-drive side because of greater tension and shorter spokes. Do not try to make both sides the same. Once the pitch is in more or less the same range all the way around on either side, then start checking visually to see where the extremes are and adjust accordingly. Keep doing that until the extremes aren't extreme anymore and then fine tune. I'm sure others with more experience will have suggestions to add, but that's what I do and it takes a while but it works.

Also, releasing the tension all the way around won't fix the problem, it will just make it out of true and loose. It's all about balancing tension, so if you release the tension there is nothing there to balance.

Yes that will probably skew the dish. I am too deaf to be able to tell by sound how close spokes are to the same tension, so I have to use a tension meter. Dished rear wheels are the more complicated ones to do. Do you have a truing stand? If it is one of the self centering ones you will be able to keep track of your dish as you tension the spokes, watch for going out of round by tightening up spokes too tight too early.

Aaron

If you completely untension the wheel, yes, you'll screw the dish (for the most part, except the amount of dish provided by longer NDS spokes) and you'll essentially be wheel building. Lacing will be the only thing left

It would help to know if you have a truing stand and which one.

I do have a truing stand, a broken spoke, and a little frustration. It's a spin doctor, i have reference point to the center. I rather not become a wheel builder today.

Yes, you can mess up the dish by doing this, not to mention other potential problems. Even so, I don't see any alternative to backing off the tension on all the spokes. Don't go too far. At some point you will have to check the dish, and correct it if necessary.

Given you said you "made a complete mess of the rear" you may not have a choice

If the rim is FAR out of true the only reasonable way to fix it is to detension the spokes and retrue. If you have a center reference point on the stand dishing the wheel is really no different than lateral truing...you're just truing to a center point rather than against the rim itself, if that makes sense. To try to minimize the amount of effect on the dish detension slowly, half turn per spoke and keep going around the wheel until it starts to loosen. If the dish ends up being far off I don't kow that you can do it right without loosening the wheel all the way. I'm afraid that with a little ternsion left in it you'd end up with too much tension before the dish came back for you.

Also, we're not talking about a bent rim at all here are we?

I agree. When a wheel is difficult to true it can be because the tension is all over the place (or the rim is bent). Loosen all spokes to a consistent place (like the spoke end flush to the nipple head, or the ends of the threads to the other end of the spoke nipple.). Go around the entire wheel and bring up tension, but not at all tight. Get it loosely trued. Work on getting it round. Then work on getting it true. Dish is easy if you just flip the wheel in the stand without moving the side guides. Dish is just centering the rim between the outside cone surfaces.

BTW, I tend to do my final dish adjustments in the frame its going into, assuming I've already aligned the dropouts.

As you work on the wheel, occasionally squeeze parallel spoke pairs together all around the wheel. Occasionally take the wheel out of the stand, set it upright on the floor and lean all you weight on the rim, rotating over and over all around. Both these actions will help set the spokes and relieve windup. As you get close to perfectly trued and tensioned, the amount you're turning the spoke wrench should be really minute.

Truing a wheel is a slow, methodical process. It should be gentle and uniform throughout, as you bring the wheel up to tension and true. Actually, very Zen like I think.

I have another to build today...

After loosening the spokes, bringing the tension up and truing the wheel went smooth. The tension on each side seems reasonable consistent, I'm cautiously optimistic. The wheel's going on a flip, i would hate for a wheel to self destruct on a bike that I sold. I'm thinking about mounting the wheel on my bike and riding a few miles to see how it holds up. If it has flaws how long will it take for them it show up. Would it be better to have the wheel inspected at a bike shop before riding.

Thanks

I think if it's true and the dish is right and the tension is consistent, your test ride will be pretty much what you need. Check it again after some miles and see what's up.

Thanks Robbie Tunes, it's a good day for a ride.