irwin7638

You know, seriously no offense intended to anybody here, two years ago I remember the same type of comments and complaints about the Bombadil with it's twin top tubes. I've got to admit that the diagonal second tube, at first glance, reminds me of a 90's AMF roadmaster, but structurally it makes more sense than the horizontal second tube. It seems that everybody got used to the Bombadil, it will happen with the Hunq as well.

Marc

surreal

I agree, especially considering that auxiliary top tubes and similar gadgetry (in horizontal, diagonal, and curvy variants) have graced bicycle frames for longer than any of us have been alive (according to recent BF polls, anyway.) I personally like newsboy style frames, with the straight second top tube beneath a curved actual top tube. Looks nice. Not sure i'd ever actually rock one, although i do want an lgb/cycletruck at some point.

-rob

irwin7638

Since this thread started with the question about the Rivendell Splats among other things, I thought I would (and this may fall under the more money than brains category) buy a pair and try them out. I just got them yesterday and wanted to try them to see if they would help with wind chill in the winter. They are intended as rain gear and look like they will be fine for that, but I thought they might make nice winter protection as well. As they imply on their website these are frumpy looking to the nth degree. But they go on easily, and look like they may work very well, I am going out today for about 15 miles and will let you know.

dddd

I subscribed to the Reader around the time that bicycling-related forums were sprouting up on the web, but the Reader started reading like a sob story while their product line and ethos inched towards irrelevence.
Then things got weird, they were touting "his and his" bikes, and just too proud of their forced diversity in employment. They had a staff of dedicated cyclists, but were compelled to, and a little too proud of, a new minority hiring plan. Like I said, irrelevent.
Then was an article about the utility of "ghost riding" a second bike around instead of perhaps using a car, a method I've used hundreds of times. But can't they see how dangerous that can be? The learning curve for this method of transport is quite steep, trust me, and I woudn't recommend it.
Lastly, their arguements about the repairability of their frames has been overstated, imo. The cost of repairing and repainting a frame can buy you a whole 'nuther good one, new, used or vintage, from any number of supply chains.

TimeTravel_0

oh no. not "his and his" bicycles. that's an abomination!

sauze

looking forward to the response

VaMoots

Exactly.

If the continued existence of this thread bothers some people they should stop reading and posting to it.

If you don't like Riv products don't buy them.

No, their frames are not overpriced. Not on this planet.

My only real gripe is they are not very good about answering their e-mail. If they can't be bothered to answer questions about their products I can't be bothered to buy from them.

TimeTravel_0

rivendell always has emailed me back.

mtnbke

Don't agree. Most here know something about bikes. Rivendells are for people who don't have enough sense to know they are really buying a Mark Nobilette built bike, or if they are unlucky, a Waterford. Rather, people who buy a Rivendell are not buying the bike. Rivs are heavy, they aren't really fun to ride, they climb like they are pulling a boat anchor, and they just aren't all that. What people who are buying a Rivendell are actually buying is marketing. They are buying an ethos, a bike identity. A custom Nobilette or Waterford would ALWAYS be a better actual riding bike than the Riv production bike.

People on the C&V know bikes. We don't need a narrative, and we can find a great bike, and recognize it without having it spoon fed to us complete with components. We actually understand that not all chains or front derailleurs are the same. Riv makes good copy, not so much bikes.

Which is exactly why Riv is selling weird things, because it was never about actually selling bikes.

Hell a Craigslist 1986 Cannondale ST800 is everything a Riv wants to be but is not. Brooks leather saddle, American Classic post, Nitto rando bars, Suntour Superbe Pro rear derailleur with touring long cage, Suntour Superbe front derailleur, Suntour Superbe Pro pedals with clips and leather straps, quill stem, Stronglight headset, Sugino touring triple crank, freewheel, Suntour Accushift barcons, lots of spokes. Fenders, front and rear racks painted with the three water bottle cages to match frame. Clearance for wide tires, real cantilever brakes.

What sets it apart is the aluminum frame with steel touring fork. Its lighter, faster, sand stronger than a Riv and climbs like a mountain goat. You could pocket the difference a vintage bike like this would cost you (around $400) and you couldn't really upgrade a damn thing on the bike (maybe hubs to Phil Wood's). Its a bike that is actually a joy to ride, not just a boat anchor Riv that is mostly a joy to look at.

Rivendell owners don't "get" bikes. They get image, they get presentation, and they swallow propaganda by the bucketful.

By Grant's own admission any vintage Bridgestone from the golden era has better craftsmanship than any current Riv. Yet you can get a craigslist Bridgestone for pennies on the dollar compared to a Riv. A CycleArt paint job still leaves you with a couple thou in your pocket.

The savvy C&V cyclist is not a target Riv customer. You/we know bikes. Riv customers, by definition, do not. A Riv is not a great frame. It is not a great bike. It is a work of art.

The joy of bikes is the bike, in its useful form, actually riding it, not what it looks like on your freakin' Facebook page.

Rob Glatfelter

Where is that Cannondale ST800 again?
I really like the sound of everything going on there.
I would do dirty dirty things to that bike for thousands of miles.
EDIT: Drool....

Bogester 

Best troll post I've ever seen....bravo!

DCycle

Heh. I think you've mis-represented many c&v forumers. Well, if you replace Facebook with "Show off your bike" threads here on bikeforums...



Not that there's really anything wrong with that.

gerv 

+1. If Rivendell is generating this much steam, they must be doing something right.

irwin7638

The "Splats" that I mentioned yesterday turned out to work pretty well in the cold. They are intended to keep your feet dry in the rain, and I suppose they will. After seeing them mentioned on this thread, I wondered if they might help with wind chill for those of us in the frigid areas. They seemed to yesterday. I am putting some more pics and detail on my blog, but I rode about 6 or 7 miles with them on in 25-30 degree weather, and took them off for the return ride. While I can't say that I was "toasty" comfortable,my feet were noticeably colder on the return. I think they will be useful in colder temps and it would be conceivable to add a layer of fleece to the underside to help trap the heat in, they are really easy to take on or off which makes them a lot more practical than the old "booties," although neoprene "boots" will definitely be warmer.

mickey85

That cannondale is really sexy....

As far as the Rivendell riding vs. image is concerned, having never ridden one of their bikes, I can't speak on their ride characteristics. I'd love to have a Roadeo or Hilsen, as they seem to be the only intelligently designed bikes in the stable (well, aside from the Atlantis), but as I said previously, for the same or less amount of money, I can get a fully custom bike from a local builder that's exactly what I'd want. Honestly, I'd probably take in a description of the Roadeo, say "see this? I want one. Custom. With these braze-ons" and let him go at it. A, because it's cheaper. B, because it supports local business, and C, because then I'd get EXACTLY what I wanted.


I do still plan on buying cycling gloves and bar tape from them...The gloves, because I've never had some that felt so nice, and the tape, because I have a hard time getting it locally, and it comes in so many colors!

ScottRyder 

yawn ...

Scott

surreal

So long as we're making folks yawn, i might as well add another long-winded rant to the mix:

mtnbike's post may not be incredibly tactful, especially considering that several contributors to this forum do ride rivendells, and seem to be fairly knowledgeable about bikes, despite having bought an overpriced one. ;D However, i do agree with mtnbike's sentiments, by-and-large, b/c i do feel that the riv "philosophy" is more marketing than anything else, and it's being echoed by other purveyors of bike stuff who seem to be/try to be outside of cycling's "mainstream". As i'd posted about 4 pages back, the sales pitch/philosophy is what i consider to be the lifelong cyclists' conventional wisdom: you'll want fenders, more-than-minimal amounts of rubber, and reliable/low-maintenance components. Long before i even heard of rivendell, i'd been given the riv philosophy over beers by bearded bike-nerds who were trying to convince me that a track bike with 23mm rubber was not the best mode of conveyance for a fat commuter. These days, i thoroughly agree, but reading riv's site is a lot like speaking with any serious cyclist who rides more than/as much as s/he races. There's no actual wizardry, but GP's copy is very effective on ppl who know just enough to know he's right, but not enough to know that a lot of other bicycle marques are right, too.

That being said, i applaud ppl who buy rivendells, even at inflated prices, b/c i think that those of us who can probably *should* support anyone producing/contracting others to produce steel bikes with clearance for tires, especially ones manufactured in non-sweatshop conditions. My mom's bf, who can be a bit of a d-bag, shops at the thrift store, b/c it is chock-full of awesome bargains. I used to shop in thrift stores, and still do probably about once/year, but i stopped b/c i have a f/t job and i think the deals at a thrift store should be left to ppl who actually need the deals. (When i was in undergrad, and worked at 2 restaurants for a total of about 45 hrs/week at a low rate, i absolutely needed a source of cheap threads. To have guys like me and my mom's overpaid professional bf picking the best stuff at the thrift seems criminal, if we're snatching stuff from folks who need it.)

I'm starting to feel the same way about used/vintage bikes. Shouldn't i support the bike industry, which has offered me so much over the years, instead of all y'all flippers? Not to be trollish, but i was thinking about a thread i'd started here a few months back, and i'm beginning to feel that flippers are, almost certainly, driving the prices up for what should be cheap used bikes. If you got it for $20, tuned it up, and sold it to some guy for $150, you've cost that guy about $70, which became your profit. The poor guy who actually needs the $150 bike should've got it for $20, sank some $ into it for tires/cables/brake pads, and learned more about bikes. Sad thing is, these days, it wouldn't surprise me if the guy who gets it for $150 is gonna turn around and try to get $250+shipping for it on ebay.

Meanwhile, the market will become further dominated by the bikes that are currently bringing the most money for new bikes: completely pants hybrids, impractical road bikes, and dreadfully tasteless cruisers. I'm thinking, my fleet of old bikes is big enough; i may've bought my last one. I ought to be saving my pennies for something like a BJ, a Bilenky, a mercian, or some other custom. If nerds like me don't buy those bikes, who will? And if i buy all the mid-level japanese bikes from the 80s that pop up on craigslist, how will our hobby ever grow to include new enthusiasts? If companies that manufacture high-quality steel bikes with the design features we enjoy don't sell new frames, they shall perish. What, then, will become the c&v bikes of the future?.

Regardless, i still won't buy a riv; they're overpriced. =D

-rob

ps-the most boring post on this whole thread is from the chap above, who bothered to type "yawn", with ellipses, and then signed his name. Talk about a snoozefest

cs1

Maybe it's because you only have 28 posts.

surreal

i doubt that he puts this:
Member VaMoots

Join Date
Aug 2005
Posts
28

as his sig in his emails. But, if he does, i'd say that'd be a good reason for the ppl at riv to ignore his emails. Otherwise, they really have no excuse, and must not be as hungry for business as they frequently claim.

-rob

RJM

I have written several emails to Grant and John at Riv and always received a thought out response to each one. Phone has worked well too.

surreal

+1 phone calls
in this day and age, we tend to forget about the phone. But, while emails are convenient, a lot of businesses with a strong web-following probably get about a zillion emails each day, with a large percentage being from folks who aren't entirely serious about actually buying anything. Not saying that you're obligated to buy something if someone responds to your email, but you probably shouldn't pester someone about a frame or component if you're not legitimately at least considering the purchase.

i think we, as humans, are less likely to phone a business just to play "make-believe" than we are to send an email, b/c the pone just feels less anonymous. I also think that a business is less likely to blow-off a phone call, due to the immediacy of a ringing phone versus the ease with which we can put an email into a "respond later" folder.

-rob

dbakl

Seems extreme. Nobilette is not worthy, Waterford is bad?

Rivendell prices are comparable to other frames made by humans. I admit, its not for me, cause I know the old sheet and prefer it because I can afford it, but for people that want that, why not? I have a neighbor down the street who has a Rivendell bike and absolutely loves it. So what, what her previous experience is, she's out, she's riding, she's a member of the team.

rothenfield1

Just wanted to bump this because I know how much it P.O.s some here. Hey, that's just how I roll, Merry Xmas one and all.

Bogester 

Disagree...I could read his post. I couldn't get past the first paragraph of yours. Merry Christmas...I hope you enjoy whatever bike you are riding.

cs1

It was a joke. Meant to take the edge of off a touchy topic.