flippers
11-26-10, 06:55 PM
#26
Lug Princess
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Veloria,
You're not a flipper. You bought those bikes, gave 'em a serious go, featured them on your blog, and sold them if/when they didn't work for you. This new thing, with the shogun, that's not flipping, but you are doing some "flippant" stuff, which will end up promoting your blog. I find that admirable, but others might try to criticize it.
-rob
You're not a flipper. You bought those bikes, gave 'em a serious go, featured them on your blog, and sold them if/when they didn't work for you. This new thing, with the shogun, that's not flipping, but you are doing some "flippant" stuff, which will end up promoting your blog. I find that admirable, but others might try to criticize it.
-rob
11-26-10, 07:01 PM
#27
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I suppose that was my main motive. Curiosity. I wanted to try this old bike. I wanted to try that old bike...with these wheels. I wanted to try them both and switch the wheels and try them again. Then there were all those poor orphans on the recycle pile to help finance the operation. Aside from having a much smaller space to work in, I think I've found my real keeper bike and most of my curiosity is satisfied.
11-26-10, 07:10 PM
#28
Senior Member
I suppose that was my main motive. Curiosity. I wanted to try this old bike. I wanted to try that old bike...with these wheels. I wanted to try them both and switch the wheels and try them again. Then there were all those poor orphans on the recycle pile to help finance the operation. Aside from having a much smaller space to work in, I think I've found my real keeper bike and most of my curiosity is satisfied.
11-26-10, 07:19 PM
#29
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I'm a little surprised at some of the responses in this thread, I do understand some frustration with overpriced bikes due to the habits of some flippers but not all flippers contribute to the problem.
Here's a typical bike that I did, I won't go into what I paid for it but here's one as found.
And here it is when I finished it, all freshly cleaned and greased, new cables and housings, trued wheels, new tires, tubes and bar wrap.
After all that I sold it for $150.00, did I make a profit? Yes.
Did I make a killing? Heck no but like I said in my first post in this thread, I build them for fun and to pass them along to people that will enjoy them and in speaking to most of the people I sell bikes to it's obvious that most could not perform the work needed on a bike like this and taking it to a bike shop for the same repairs would cost a LOT more than what I sold the bike for.
So am I driving up the market or providing a service?
Here's a typical bike that I did, I won't go into what I paid for it but here's one as found.
And here it is when I finished it, all freshly cleaned and greased, new cables and housings, trued wheels, new tires, tubes and bar wrap.
After all that I sold it for $150.00, did I make a profit? Yes.
Did I make a killing? Heck no but like I said in my first post in this thread, I build them for fun and to pass them along to people that will enjoy them and in speaking to most of the people I sell bikes to it's obvious that most could not perform the work needed on a bike like this and taking it to a bike shop for the same repairs would cost a LOT more than what I sold the bike for.
So am I driving up the market or providing a service?
11-26-10, 07:21 PM
#30
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I flip. STL has a great market for it.
I try and keep a bike or two around for myself, but a good offer for them can snatch them............although the Scapin I just picked up may be a real keeper
I try and keep a bike or two around for myself, but a good offer for them can snatch them............although the Scapin I just picked up may be a real keeper
11-26-10, 07:21 PM
#31
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I buy & sell bikes for fun money. Make anywhere from $100+ to $50 per bike. Most bikes get stripped down to bare frame & built back up. I'll ride them around for a while, then re-adjust brakes & shifting as needed. If I paid myself minimum wage for all the time spent reconditioning a bike I'd go broke.
I enjoy the process. My mechanical abilities have improved immensely.
The most gratifying sale made was a Univega Gran Rally. The buyer loved the bike, but thought the price was too high, ($250) so he went to look at other bikes. He called later that day to pick up the Univega. He thought it was by far the best value for the money, new or used.
I enjoy the process. My mechanical abilities have improved immensely.
The most gratifying sale made was a Univega Gran Rally. The buyer loved the bike, but thought the price was too high, ($250) so he went to look at other bikes. He called later that day to pick up the Univega. He thought it was by far the best value for the money, new or used.
11-26-10, 07:23 PM
#32
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No such thing as "flippers" around here, only people who restore bikes and resell them at a profit. Now, I do sell my bikes to people that pay my price then repost them at out of line prices. Example of one, sold this trash save after a few hours work for $125. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/2079718055.html He resold it with new bar tape for $450, they are asking $300. Who's the flipper...
$300 firm
great 1st bike for getting into cycling. i'm 5 ft 6 in & it fits me.
52cm.
i just bought it earlier this year for $450 from SF specialist who refurbishes bikes.
Shimano components.
selling b/c moving & my car is already moved so no means to transport it.
1 of the tension wires for switching gears on 1 side needs to be tightened (or maybe replaced?) but it should be an easy/inexpensive thing to do.
(just noticed this on the ride back from GG bridge last weekend)
rides well.
both men's & women's seat styles included.
cash only.
call / text me to see it 650.xxxx cell.
$300 firm
great 1st bike for getting into cycling. i'm 5 ft 6 in & it fits me.
52cm.
i just bought it earlier this year for $450 from SF specialist who refurbishes bikes.
Shimano components.
selling b/c moving & my car is already moved so no means to transport it.
1 of the tension wires for switching gears on 1 side needs to be tightened (or maybe replaced?) but it should be an easy/inexpensive thing to do.
(just noticed this on the ride back from GG bridge last weekend)
rides well.
both men's & women's seat styles included.
cash only.
call / text me to see it 650.xxxx cell.
Last edited by curbtender; 11-26-10 at 07:29 PM.
11-26-10, 07:25 PM
#33
Senior Member
I like how he acts like he's losing money on it (the reseller, that is..)
Last edited by Taxi Rob; 11-26-10 at 07:36 PM.
11-26-10, 07:29 PM
#34
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I'm a little surprised at some of the responses in this thread, I do understand some frustration with overpriced bikes due to the habits of some flippers but not all flippers contribute to the problem.
Here's a typical bike that I did, I won't go into what I paid for it but here's one as found.
And here it is when I finished it, all freshly cleaned and greased, new cables and housings, trued wheels, new tires, tubes and bar wrap.
After all that I sold it for $150.00, did I make a profit? Yes.
Did I make a killing? Heck no but like I said in my first post in this thread, I build them for fun and to pass them along to people that will enjoy them and in speaking to most of the people I sell bikes to it's obvious that most could not perform the work needed on a bike like this and taking it to a bike shop for the same repairs would cost a LOT more than what I sold the bike for.
So am I driving up the market or providing a service?
Here's a typical bike that I did, I won't go into what I paid for it but here's one as found.
And here it is when I finished it, all freshly cleaned and greased, new cables and housings, trued wheels, new tires, tubes and bar wrap.
After all that I sold it for $150.00, did I make a profit? Yes.
Did I make a killing? Heck no but like I said in my first post in this thread, I build them for fun and to pass them along to people that will enjoy them and in speaking to most of the people I sell bikes to it's obvious that most could not perform the work needed on a bike like this and taking it to a bike shop for the same repairs would cost a LOT more than what I sold the bike for.
So am I driving up the market or providing a service?
Sad part about bikes, is that the before & after pictures rarely show 1/10 of the work entailed. The pics posted show new tires, new seat, & re-wrapped bars with a few minor improvements. The uninitiated have not a clue about what was done & how much work it took.
11-26-10, 07:34 PM
#35
Senior Member
I'm a little surprised at some of the responses in this thread, I do understand some frustration with overpriced bikes due to the habits of some flippers but not all flippers contribute to the problem.
Here's a typical bike that I did, I won't go into what I paid for it but here's one as found.
And here it is when I finished it, all freshly cleaned and greased, new cables and housings, trued wheels, new tires, tubes and bar wrap.
After all that I sold it for $150.00, did I make a profit? Yes.
Did I make a killing? Heck no but like I said in my first post in this thread, I build them for fun and to pass them along to people that will enjoy them and in speaking to most of the people I sell bikes to it's obvious that most could not perform the work needed on a bike like this and taking it to a bike shop for the same repairs would cost a LOT more than what I sold the bike for.
So am I driving up the market or providing a service?
Here's a typical bike that I did, I won't go into what I paid for it but here's one as found.
And here it is when I finished it, all freshly cleaned and greased, new cables and housings, trued wheels, new tires, tubes and bar wrap.
After all that I sold it for $150.00, did I make a profit? Yes.
Did I make a killing? Heck no but like I said in my first post in this thread, I build them for fun and to pass them along to people that will enjoy them and in speaking to most of the people I sell bikes to it's obvious that most could not perform the work needed on a bike like this and taking it to a bike shop for the same repairs would cost a LOT more than what I sold the bike for.
So am I driving up the market or providing a service?
I'm not saying everyone is contributing to the problem, and I think most of us here are of the same mind based on our testimonies. BUT when ONE GUY has 20 bikes listed on cl at headcrack price, the individual sellers start to get the idea that their bikes are worth more also, and the ARTIFICIAL upward spiral begins. When an individual seller is competing with a pro and he only has that as a reference to base his pricing on, things can skyrocket quickly, especially in a market where people buy bikes because it's the "cool" thing to do, and then they languish in their living room or *yikes* on their apartment balconies
11-26-10, 08:00 PM
#36
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In my market I don't see the flippers actually driving up prices. Over the past few years the number of people flipping (people who list a half dozen to a dozen bikes at a time) has increased. The over priced bikes may get re-listed all spring summer and fall and never sell. Without buyers the price has not really gone up.
11-26-10, 08:17 PM
#37
Senior Member
In my market I don't see the flippers actually driving up prices. Over the past few years the number of people flipping (people who list a half dozen to a dozen bikes at a time) has increased. The over priced bikes may get re-listed all spring summer and fall and never sell. Without buyers the price has not really gone up.
11-26-10, 08:17 PM
#38
Thrifty Bill
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Want to find an endless supply of bikes? Just follow the various suggestions from Randy Jawa on how to look, and go for it!!
Just one flipper's opinion. There are a lot easier ways to make a buck.
+1 To the comment below. The bicycle market tends to be very inefficient. Which sometimes means you can pick up a bike at a low price that has significant value. The same is true with almost anything: cars, real estate, guitars, golf clubs, whatever.
+1 Flippers don't drive prices up, buyers drive them up. And recently around here, prices are drifting downward, despite there being more flippers. Maybe I should blame the decline in prices on flippers?
Last edited by wrk101; 11-26-10 at 09:42 PM.
11-26-10, 08:20 PM
#39
Uber Goober
Flipping is essentially the bicycle equivalent of a used car salesman. Nothing wrong with the practice, but how it's done can give it a bad name, as with cars.
I've seen people get really peeved because the bike that sold for $40 on yesterday's Craigslist is now on there for $400. I don't see anything wrong with that, assuming it is worth the $400. Seeing items that are overpriced is irritating. If the advertising is deceptive in some way, that's just wrong, but that's not a flipper issue, either. Just reading the Craigslist ads, it's not apparent who is a flipper and who isn't, but it doesn't appear that overpricing is limited to flippers, and they may be less likely to overprice, for that matter. They're selling old bikes, not heirlooms.
I've seen people get really peeved because the bike that sold for $40 on yesterday's Craigslist is now on there for $400. I don't see anything wrong with that, assuming it is worth the $400. Seeing items that are overpriced is irritating. If the advertising is deceptive in some way, that's just wrong, but that's not a flipper issue, either. Just reading the Craigslist ads, it's not apparent who is a flipper and who isn't, but it doesn't appear that overpricing is limited to flippers, and they may be less likely to overprice, for that matter. They're selling old bikes, not heirlooms.
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11-26-10, 08:34 PM
#40
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Well I guess the jig is up - Gotta come clean - I'm a flipper!
I only flip old road bikes. I have had fun foraging and wrenching on them, which has benefited my customers: They get a bike that is truly 100% , at a fair price.
It has benefited me also, because in so-doing, I've acquired a lot of keepers - essentially for free!
Unfortunately though, the market has collapsed here, and now I'm refraining from buying, because I can't STORE everything waiting for it to sell, and I can't see turning this hobby into a money pit .
Hopefully, things will recover here next season.
I only flip old road bikes. I have had fun foraging and wrenching on them, which has benefited my customers: They get a bike that is truly 100% , at a fair price.
It has benefited me also, because in so-doing, I've acquired a lot of keepers - essentially for free!
Unfortunately though, the market has collapsed here, and now I'm refraining from buying, because I can't STORE everything waiting for it to sell, and I can't see turning this hobby into a money pit .
Hopefully, things will recover here next season.
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11-26-10, 08:38 PM
#41
You gonna eat that?
I've flipped a few. I had about $40 in a bike I gave away to a friend of my wife. She never rode it but her teenaged daughter likes it. So that was worth it I guess. I got one bike for $10, traded it for a frame I haven't done anything with. I got a Fuji Sports 12 for nothing from an acquaintance and sold it for $20, but then bought the friend breakfast with the proceeds. I got a nice Fuji mixte for nothing from the curb on garbage night, sold it for $50. That was a great bike. A couple weeks ago I flipped a Schwinn Prelude I picked up for $50 earlier this year at a pawn shop, trading it for a Raleigh Super Course I'm riding. Not much profit there for sure, but it's fun.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
11-26-10, 08:40 PM
#42
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I am not a flipper per se, but I have bought and sold several bikes on Craigslist. I generally buy a bike, clean it, tune it and ride it. If I want to keep it, it stays in the garage. If it just isn't right for me, I sell it. I don't buy a bike with the intention of immediately flipping it.
By doing this I have learned how to fix bikes, learned about all sorts of components, and provide a service to other buyers in that I buy bikes that "need help" and get them road worthy. I don't end up making much, just enough to buy the next bike.
One of the things this has allowed me to do is to keep upgrading my collection. I started out with a Giant Yukon mountain bike (which I still have) and went through a Peugeot, Miyata, Schwinn PDG 30, Raleigh Olympian, Bridgestone Kabuki, etc, etc.
Along the way I've kept a near-mint Schwinn World Sport from '89, a Schwinn Le Tour '74, a Schwinn Le Tour Luxe '85, a Raleigh Technium 460, a Gary Fisher Super AR road bike and another Bridgestone Kabuki Submariner which I'm currently trying to sell. All the others are going to stay around awhile.
I agree that it can be an issue, but I think that I have benefitted the buyers of bikes that I've sold by completely cleaning them, touching up paint, replacing worn cables and housing, rewrapping bars, etc. When they buy a bike from me it looks pretty close to new.
By doing this I have learned how to fix bikes, learned about all sorts of components, and provide a service to other buyers in that I buy bikes that "need help" and get them road worthy. I don't end up making much, just enough to buy the next bike.
One of the things this has allowed me to do is to keep upgrading my collection. I started out with a Giant Yukon mountain bike (which I still have) and went through a Peugeot, Miyata, Schwinn PDG 30, Raleigh Olympian, Bridgestone Kabuki, etc, etc.
Along the way I've kept a near-mint Schwinn World Sport from '89, a Schwinn Le Tour '74, a Schwinn Le Tour Luxe '85, a Raleigh Technium 460, a Gary Fisher Super AR road bike and another Bridgestone Kabuki Submariner which I'm currently trying to sell. All the others are going to stay around awhile.
I agree that it can be an issue, but I think that I have benefitted the buyers of bikes that I've sold by completely cleaning them, touching up paint, replacing worn cables and housing, rewrapping bars, etc. When they buy a bike from me it looks pretty close to new.
11-26-10, 08:44 PM
#43
Senior Member
Dood. When I lived in Bland Diego about 5 years ago, I had a grand old time finding bikes at the swap meets. Kobey and Spring Valley were my favorites. I flipped about 30-40 bikes when I lived there. Made a profit on most of it. (Though I lost a whole lot of time, so I really lost money in an eye of an economist) Still it was fun going to those weekend swap meets and finding reynolds 531 frame bikes for $40 in good condition. Sick! Dood. Sick! This is one of the things I miss about Bland Diego, that and drinking beer at the Bland Diego Velodrome. Bland Diego is a good way of describing San Diego. I lived there for 5 years and got bored rather quickly. Move to Bay Area, we got bike stealing Trannies here as noted in the Northern California Forum. Much more exciting.
11-26-10, 08:46 PM
#44
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I don't flip much, but...I live in a small city surrounded by a relatively poor rural area, where it's sometimes possible to find old bikes very cheaply (usually out of somebody's barn). Not much demand here. Occasionally, I'll buy a bike here, put a little bit of work to it, and sell it in the nearby hipster-infested "cool" city, where demand is high. It usually gives me enough profit to pay for a fun weekend in said "cool" city. I'm pretty sure I'm making people happy on both ends.
11-26-10, 08:51 PM
#45
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If you can't find used bikes in SD, you are not looking hard enough. Well, that was the case 2 years ago when I left.
I don't flip anymore. Too time consuming. Learned my lesson in SD. Rather ride or gab on BF.
I had a friend who bought bikes exclusively at garage sales. I remember he bought a 80s Pinarello with full Campy AND Phil Wood hub wheels for $40. You can get absolutely the best bargains this way, but again. how much time you got to waste?
Last edited by 531phile; 11-26-10 at 08:58 PM.
11-26-10, 09:00 PM
#46
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I've flipped alot of bikes.
I have limited space which dictates a maximum of about 10 bikes. Anything more than that and things start getting in the way. Its been a little over 2 years now most of which has been dead. I had a great initial 9 months from about Sptember of '08 through June of '09 but havent done much since then simply because I cant find good canidates.
Over these past 2 years my rotating 10 bike collection has gradualy move more upscale to point where all of my bikes are either Dura Ace or Record equipted and have Columbus SL or Reynolds 531 tubing. All of them have been paid for with profits from other bikes. How much cash have I made? From the bikes maybe $9,000 and probably another $4,000 from spare parts plus the dozen or so bike I have on hand.
First and foremost this a hobby for me, second, it will always be a hobby. Fortunately I have a hobby that pays for itself.
I have limited space which dictates a maximum of about 10 bikes. Anything more than that and things start getting in the way. Its been a little over 2 years now most of which has been dead. I had a great initial 9 months from about Sptember of '08 through June of '09 but havent done much since then simply because I cant find good canidates.
Over these past 2 years my rotating 10 bike collection has gradualy move more upscale to point where all of my bikes are either Dura Ace or Record equipted and have Columbus SL or Reynolds 531 tubing. All of them have been paid for with profits from other bikes. How much cash have I made? From the bikes maybe $9,000 and probably another $4,000 from spare parts plus the dozen or so bike I have on hand.
First and foremost this a hobby for me, second, it will always be a hobby. Fortunately I have a hobby that pays for itself.
11-26-10, 09:22 PM
#47
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I flip therefor I am.
If I find a bike for the right price that I can fix/save and make some coin you bet I am going to do it to feed my bike addiction and line my pockets. When I sell them I am quite honest if asked if I bought it to make coin. I have no embarrassment about turning a profit in my hobby. I do pride myself on selling a bike in good usable condition that has no hidden defects and I have had buyers ask me to meet them at local bike shop to have a once over given by the mechanic before buying.
Now I will tell you this. On bikes I intend to flip I learned NOT to post about what I paid before it is sold. I had one guy find a post and used it to leverage me. We had a civil discussion of why I was asking what I was asking when he understood the service I gave it would have been $100+ at any bike store he came to terms with my price was fair and he was getting a bike in perfect working order that needed nothing but a rider. He wanted it, He knew what I paid for it, he had a choice of buy it for a fair asking price or walk. He was more then welcome to spend the time to find another bike of its quality at thrifts, yard sales, CL then do the work on it or pay somebody to do the work.
While as I said I have no embarrassment about flipping I do not want to get into another situation of somebody trying to leverage me like that knowing what I paid. The fact is I want to make about $100 for my time that I put into it to get it ready for sale. That is inline with what a shop charges. If I cant make close to that I often will pass on it as a flipper. Thats why I steer clear of most Mountain bikes if they need any sort of parts and are over $20. Just not enough money to justify the time.
There is plenty of other flippers on CL that have beat me to the catch on a fresh post and doing the same as I. I hope they service the bikes as I do but some I know are just giving it a wipe down and reposting it without ever taking a wrench to it. It is a buyer beware situation. I have helped buyers of my bikes with repairs that I had no obligation but just did it as a gesture of good faith and I have had some pay me to do work/upgrades. I have had repeat buyers that asked me to find bikes for them or friends or ask me advice on bikes they have found. I feel that shows I am reputable when I get repeats and as I said it gives me the coin for the ones I want to keep for me.
If I find a bike for the right price that I can fix/save and make some coin you bet I am going to do it to feed my bike addiction and line my pockets. When I sell them I am quite honest if asked if I bought it to make coin. I have no embarrassment about turning a profit in my hobby. I do pride myself on selling a bike in good usable condition that has no hidden defects and I have had buyers ask me to meet them at local bike shop to have a once over given by the mechanic before buying.
Now I will tell you this. On bikes I intend to flip I learned NOT to post about what I paid before it is sold. I had one guy find a post and used it to leverage me. We had a civil discussion of why I was asking what I was asking when he understood the service I gave it would have been $100+ at any bike store he came to terms with my price was fair and he was getting a bike in perfect working order that needed nothing but a rider. He wanted it, He knew what I paid for it, he had a choice of buy it for a fair asking price or walk. He was more then welcome to spend the time to find another bike of its quality at thrifts, yard sales, CL then do the work on it or pay somebody to do the work.
While as I said I have no embarrassment about flipping I do not want to get into another situation of somebody trying to leverage me like that knowing what I paid. The fact is I want to make about $100 for my time that I put into it to get it ready for sale. That is inline with what a shop charges. If I cant make close to that I often will pass on it as a flipper. Thats why I steer clear of most Mountain bikes if they need any sort of parts and are over $20. Just not enough money to justify the time.
There is plenty of other flippers on CL that have beat me to the catch on a fresh post and doing the same as I. I hope they service the bikes as I do but some I know are just giving it a wipe down and reposting it without ever taking a wrench to it.
It is a buyer beware situation. I have helped buyers of my bikes with repairs that I had no obligation but just did it as a gesture of good faith and I have had some pay me to do work/upgrades. I have had repeat buyers that asked me to find bikes for them or friends or ask me advice on bikes they have found. I feel that shows I am reputable when I get repeats and as I said it gives me the coin for the ones I want to keep for me.
11-26-10, 09:24 PM
#48
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Let me tell you about it, here are my better finds from this summer. How about a Custom Made Klein Kirsten with full D/A 7400 for $45, an 88 Master Dave Scott for $70, A Trek 414, Nishiki Proportional 700/24", and a super mirage for $150 for the three, and Carbon Epic RS for $80, Trek 2300 w/STI for $200..................yes we do have some deals for sur
11-26-10, 09:36 PM
#49
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Nothing, unless you are one of the ones driving up prices on lower-end bikes and making cycling LESS accessible for people. Not to single you out, just a good question needing answered.[/QUOTE]
Flippers can not drive up prices. They can ask any amount they want. If nobody is willing to pay them for it, they have to lower the price or watch it not sell. When they lower their price to the point that someone buys it, you have reached an equilibrium. It may seem like they are raising the prices, but, in reality, the person that ends up buying the bike was willing to pay what you are not.
Flippers can not drive up prices. They can ask any amount they want. If nobody is willing to pay them for it, they have to lower the price or watch it not sell. When they lower their price to the point that someone buys it, you have reached an equilibrium. It may seem like they are raising the prices, but, in reality, the person that ends up buying the bike was willing to pay what you are not.
11-26-10, 10:10 PM
#50
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I think in a way flippers can and do drive up prices but the prices they drive up are on the fixer uppers, People have an old bike to get rid of and they check CL and see what a fully tuned, ready to ride bike like the one that's been leaning on their shed for ten years is going for and the bike they thought was worth $10.00 is now worth $50.00.
There's still deals to be had for sure but it does take a lot of effort to find them.
There's still deals to be had for sure but it does take a lot of effort to find them.