after building a few modern bikes, i randomly bid on an auction for an '84 Ciocc, and won. I am straight-up stealing this idea from a guy i rode with a while back who had a vintage DeRosa with a carbon fork.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=160518718973

i was hoping you guys could pass on some advice.

the frame has Columbus SLX, 126mm rear spacing, 27.2 seatpost, 1" threaded headset, Italian threaded BB, Downtube shifter braze ons.

what i'd like to do is build this up with 2010 Campy parts, i guess using downtube shifter adapters. Carbon fork, handlebars with internal cable routing, modern wheelset, etc. the seller said that the headset is "a little rough" so i'm going to replace that too.

So, a few questions:

(1) if i am changing the fork and headset, can i convert the whole thing to threadless? (or might a threadless headset look bad on an old frame?)

(2) the BB - will there be any problem fitting modern BB cups/cranks?

(3) it's got some rust. I was planning on cleaning it however i can, and spraying FrameSaver into the frame. anything else i should do? what would you do to clean this frame?

(4) i have read about cold-setting the rear triangle for a 130mm wheel. Many posts seem to say that it's fine to force the wheel in, so long as you're careful about alignment. the easy answer is to bring it to a shop, but generally the shops around me look at me like i'm nuts if i ask for anything out of the ordinary. thoughts?

Congratulations on winning a beautiful frame! I'm not sure why you you would want to replace that beautiful fork with an ugly carbon one, but it's your bike. The headset might just need a re-pack, which is a ten minute job and a lot easier than replacing. As to spacing, 126 is not that different from 130, you can usually fit a wheel without cold-setting. You should have no problem with bb and cranks, just remember that the threading (obviously) is Italian.

Anyways have fun with it. If I may humbly suggest, since you already have had the experience of building modern bikes, it might be more interesting for you to build this one up with 80's vintage components, instead of modern?

thanks for the info!
the reason for my concern about BB compatibility is that i have no experience with vintage / italian BBs. i'm just hoping i can use a modern BB.
will it be a 70mm BB? does that work with modern campy?

and - for the parts choice, two things: i've always liked the modern-vintage mix aesthetic, and i really prefer the look/function of newer stuff. the ability to hide cables and add carbon fiber everywhere.... just has to be done right.

This conversion is easily done. First, take the bike completely apart to clean and inspect. With the bottom bracket out, take the frame to a competent LBS that can check frame alignment and cold set the rear drop outs to 130mm.

Now, to answer your specific questions:

1) you can convert to threadless, but IMO it would be a mistake to do so. !st, it would be more costly and aesthetically inferior than leaving it as-is, 2nd, the bike will be a fantastic ride with the frame built as it is so there will be no performance enhancement, and 3rd, that fork will probably clean up very nicely. Those Ciocc forks go for decent money, and are pretty hard to find - I know, I had to find one for my Ciocc.

2)The BB is standard Italian 70mm. You can use either traditional square taper or the newer outboard bearing crank sets - it will just screw right in.

3) After the frame is completely stripped, wash it with a mild soap, such as any car wash detergent. Find either Testor's model paint or nail polish to do the paint touch up. Use a sanding pen to gently remove any small areas of rust, then clean and touch it up. If the paint is oxidized, buff it out with Meguilar's Scratch-X or similar compound, followed with wax.

For the fork, go buy a cheap wall paper trough at the local hardware store. While you're there, buy a tub of Oxalic Acid (wood bleach) crystals. Make a weak acid solution by mixing a couple of pinches of the acid crystals with hot water. Submerge the fork and let it soak for a day or two to remove the rust.

4) Again - take the frame to a competent LBS that can check frame alignment and cold set the rear drop outs to 130mm. If you need to call around to find a competent shop, do so. It will be worth your while in the long run.

5) Keep coming back here with updates and to seek advice on anything you need help on. there is a lot of knowledge contain herein.

It should come out very nice. Here's one I did:

You must be excited and welcome to your first build. I am not sure what level you are at with your building skills, but I aimed MY "TEN SPEEDS" at people getting into the activity. Perhaps a visit will help save you a buck or two.

Your frame is almost certain 70mm width and Italian thread. I don't know about modern Campy, but I'd be surprised if it couldn't be made to work.

thank you guys for all the info.

as for my level of experience, i've completed two frame-up builds myself, i've worked on cars, etc. very mechanically inclined, so that's all good. my first build was a 2010 Felt AR1; my 2nd build was a custom Masi Speciale.

AR1 Build = https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/...44e86911_z.jpg
Masi "Before" = https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5290/...61d0516e_z.jpg
Masi "After" (pls ignore the rear tire, it's for the trainer) = https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5163/...4c7a9d6f_z.jpg


but every man must know his limits: i am no good with paint or adhesives. paint + me = mess. so if that work needs to be done, i need to bring it to a shop.

i'll probably keep the quill stem; i just need to decide whether to go all-chrome or all-black.
I'm definitely changing the fork to carbon to save weight. (probably this: https://www.nashbar.com/bikes//Produc...2_174894_-1___) unless i can find a better option.

lemme articulate my concern about the BB better:
my understanding is that it's a 70mm italian-threaded BB.
this would be my first Campy build, and i want to use a modern external-bearing BB.
I understand that because the Campy BB The BB width must be 67.2-68.8mm - because the cranks need to connect at a joint in the middle of the BB.

if the Ciocc's BB is 70mm, wouldn't that make the campy BB unusable?

i'm picturing this joint pulled 2mm apart:

Yes, you did steal it. This will be a great project. And, there is plenty of good info and help both here and on the Park Tool site.

I have a couple of C&V bikes with carbon forks and they ride well. And the carbon fork may save you as much as 1 1/2 lbs.

However, let me suggest a process that, I think, will prove to be beneficial, both to mechanical experience and to getting to know this bike.

That is, build it up with the existing fork and give it a try. There will be a definite feel associated with the steel fork. If you later decide to change forks, that is a fairly simple process. And, after you get to know the bike you can decide whether you want to go with a threaded carbon fork and keep the stem or go with with a threadless system. Your bikes are your Legos. Take them apart and put them together in different configurations as often as you like. It's part of the fun.

That spec has to be for English (standard) threaded BBs like you've built up before. An Italian threaded one has got to be 70+/-. I'm going to go to the Campy site now.

Edit: spec for Italian thread: 69.2-70.8mm.
My guess is that the English cups are 1mm wider a side than the Italian cups.

omg, how awesome are you?
epic thread. thanks dudes.

btw, what do you think of my re-vamp of the Masi Speciale above? it should give an idea of what i envision for the Ciocc.
i'm glad to hear that it the auction was a steal. i've kind of dreamed of owning a vintage italian frame. hopefully this is the first of many italian steel projects.

as an interesting alternative, what about this: https://bikesdirect.com/products/moto...io_inferno.htm

if i bought this *full bike* from Bikesdirect, i'd be able to reuse the SRAM Red Group (about $2k), Ksyrium Elite Wheelset ($200-400), Seat Post, tires, etc...and then sell the frameset.
the headset is FSA 1 1/8'' (the Orbit X, i think) , which i don't know if it's usable on the Ciocc.

what do you think?

some more stuff i'm looking at for comparison.

here's a Colnago Master X Light with a 1'' fork and a threadless stem. I can only assume that it is a 1 1/8'' stem with a shim.


i also like the classic look.

You should probably have a look thru: "retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos"

Ditch that beautiful chromed fork for a carbon one and you're an evil man. It'll look terrible to boot!

I don't think carbon forks have no place on steel frames. I tend to skew towards a racier look when i can.


however, maybe this one should be allowed to keep its chrome look. I was initially considering making everything but the frame black...
...but maybe i shouldn't. maybe i should try to get new clean chrome parts.

You can clean chrome in most cases. Steel forks aren't uncomfortable IME, and if you're building with steel you really can't be a weight weenie unless you're buying a brand new frame.

what sort of cable stops would i need to convert these DT braze-ons for a modern campy shifter?
i have googled, but i'm not sure which is correct.

Search Google for "cable stops" and you will find what you are looking for...

Your LBS probably has some too... The ones pictured when I search are the Shimano brand, but should work for any group you install.

i was just wondering if the bolt size differed, or if it mattered that there's like a square bottom to the braze-on there.