Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

The story needs to be told...

Search
Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

The story needs to be told...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-22-10 | 06:54 AM
  #1  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
The story needs to be told...





Long long ago, back when "Made in Japan" was associated with inferior products, back before Toyota, Panasonic, Honda and Nikon became synonomous with the word "quality", the Japanese were producing superb utility bicycles and roadsters.

showajitensha@hotmail.co.jp

https://chikutakurinrin.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 07:01 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Geez. Now I am going to scour eBay for those.
Eileen is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 08:10 AM
  #3  
rhm's Avatar
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,810
Likes: 597
From: NJ, NYC, LI

Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...

Look at some of the early Japanese derailleurs featured on "Disraeli Gears" sometime. Really cool stuff. Like, this Shanko-sha from 1951:
rhm is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 11:54 AM
  #4  
brianinc-ville's Avatar
Senior Member
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 62
From: Greenville, NC
Nice job! Unfortunately, I rarely come across vintage Japanese utility bikes in the USA, at least not here on the East Coast.

On the other hand, I recently picked up a vintage Miyata sprung leather saddle for use on a Raleigh Superbe -- it's in no way inferior to a Brooks B73, and possibly more comfortable. Definitely a quality product.
brianinc-ville is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 12:02 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
Likes: 15
From: Lancaster County, PA

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Originally Posted by Showajitensha
Long long ago, back when "Made in Japan" was associated with inferior products, back before Toyota, Panasonic, Honda and Nikon became synonomous with the word "quality", the Japanese were producing superb utility bicycles and roadsters.
They were also already producing fine "copies" of the classic constructeur bikes from Singer, Herse, et. al.
Picchio Special is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 12:16 PM
  #6  
snarkypup's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
From: Around Seattle

Bikes: 1969 Raleigh Sports: The Root Beer Bomber

I like those bikes, oh yes I do. I want a "fender ornament." SWEEEEET.
snarkypup is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 03:35 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Santa Cruz, CA

Bikes: '81 & '09 Phoenix rod brake roadster cargo bike, '08 Santa Cruz Superlight, Jamis Eclipse

Thanks for posting those. Great stuff, beautiful bikes. I checked out the blog too, really good. Keep up the good work.
Buikema is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 03:53 PM
  #8  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Cheers! Masterpiece indeed, both the derailler and the Disraeli site!

Originally Posted by rhm
Look at some of the early Japanese derailleurs featured on "Disraeli Gears" sometime. Really cool stuff. Like, this Shanko-sha from 1951:
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 03:54 PM
  #9  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
My pleasure Buikema, appreciate the positive feedback.
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 03:58 PM
  #10  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Originally Posted by Picchio Special
They were also already producing fine "copies" of the classic constructeur bikes from Singer, Herse, et. al.
Indeed. As was true with most products, and international sports, the Japanese start off by "copying" and then refine and improve.
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 04:04 PM
  #11  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Miyata, Japan's oldest bicycle manufacturer. Happy to hear that your sprung leather saddle is a quality product. I have a soft spot for old Raleighs espescialy the Superbe and would be restoring them if only I were in the UK. But here in Japan I take what I can find and have been pleasantly surprised at what I have found. Cheers.
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 04:08 PM
  #12  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Originally Posted by snarkypup
I like those bikes, oh yes I do. I want a "fender ornament." SWEEEEET.
You can view more fender ornaments at: https://chikutakurinrin.cocolog-nifty...cot/index.html Happy hunting!
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 05:01 PM
  #13  
Bianchigirll's Avatar
Bianchi Goddess
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 28,928
Likes: 4,179
From: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

the same could be said of Automobiles. chrome fenders, ornate hood ornamenbts, chrome bumpers, tail fins with fancy turnsignals in them, chrome side striping. all have gone by the wayside in order to cut cost and we have been made to believe that auto is better because of it.
__________________
One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"

Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
Bianchigirll is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 06:07 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
From: Texarkana, AR

Bikes: 2016 Giant Escape, Univega Viva Sport, Centurion Sport DLX, Trek 420, Schwinn Sierra, Schwinn Hurricane

Originally Posted by Showajitensha
Miyata, Japan's oldest bicycle manufacturer. Happy to hear that your sprung leather saddle is a quality product. I have a soft spot for old Raleighs espescialy the Superbe and would be restoring them if only I were in the UK. But here in Japan I take what I can find and have been pleasantly surprised at what I have found. Cheers.
Oh yes. Miyata's have quite a following here. I have a Univega with a Miyata-built lugged Cro-Moly frame that I love.
Fasteryoufool is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 06:38 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,045
Likes: 15
From: Lancaster County, PA

Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis

Originally Posted by Showajitensha
Indeed. As was true with most products, and international sports, the Japanese start off by "copying" and then refine and improve.
One version of the story is that Herse attended a bike show in Japan circa 1960, and made a huge splash. Herse tapped into Japan's love of French culture, and given the cost also represented the "unobtainable" in the post-war Japanese economy. Thus the indigenous Japanese constructeur bike market, and its supremely gifted domestic artisans, was born. As you mention, the original models were refined - and occasional new models were created, such as the "pass hunter" and "rinko" types. These bikes, though they often equaled and occasionally surpassed their models, remained within range of many Japanese buyers financially. I believe they are still much more affordable in Japan than when imported into the U.S. I put "copies" in quotes in my post precisely because the Japanese builders brought their own insights, sensibilities, and aesthetic to their task, just as U.S. builders did when they adopted the aesthetic of Italian models in the 70's - they built to the ideal as they understood it as much as to the actual models.
Picchio Special is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 10:35 PM
  #16  
snarkypup's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,207
Likes: 0
From: Around Seattle

Bikes: 1969 Raleigh Sports: The Root Beer Bomber

I think I may have to go back to Japan (did a nine day visit about 7 years ago and LOVED it) for reasons beyond the Shinkansen. I may need to bring home a bike. Heck, I could do that in Europe too. I could become a bicycle-buying tourist! Bicycles are the new souvenirs! You know how some people collect thimbles or spoons from everywhere they go? I could buy bikes! Lots of bikes!

<drifts off, dreaming of foreign bikes...>
snarkypup is offline  
Reply
Old 12-22-10 | 10:47 PM
  #17  
TimeTravel_0's Avatar
commuter
 
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
I recommend ordering the back-issue of Bicycle Quarterly's Autumn 2008 "Japan Special" edition

https://www.bikequarterly.com/BQ71.html
TimeTravel_0 is offline  
Reply
Old 12-23-10 | 01:20 AM
  #18  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
the same could be said of Automobiles. chrome fenders, ornate hood ornamenbts, chrome bumpers, tail fins with fancy turnsignals in them, chrome side striping. all have gone by the wayside in order to cut cost and we have been made to believe that auto is better because of it.
Yes, I agree. It is true of many things. Old things seem to have been well built to the point that they were "over-engineered". While I have to agree that hood ornaments, fins, chrome, etc., don't add to the basic performance, they syre do go along way to adding a touch of class to the finished product.
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-23-10 | 01:26 AM
  #19  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Originally Posted by Picchio Special
One version of the story is that Herse attended a bike show in Japan circa 1960, and made a huge splash. Herse tapped into Japan's love of French culture, and given the cost also represented the "unobtainable" in the post-war Japanese economy. Thus the indigenous Japanese constructeur bike market, and its supremely gifted domestic artisans, was born. As you mention, the original models were refined - and occasional new models were created, such as the "pass hunter" and "rinko" types. These bikes, though they often equaled and occasionally surpassed their models, remained within range of many Japanese buyers financially. I believe they are still much more affordable in Japan than when imported into the U.S. I put "copies" in quotes in my post precisely because the Japanese builders brought their own insights, sensibilities, and aesthetic to their task, just as U.S. builders did when they adopted the aesthetic of Italian models in the 70's - they built to the ideal as they understood it as much as to the actual models.
Very interesting insight. I enjoyed your reply and analysis very much. Thanks.
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Old 12-23-10 | 01:27 AM
  #20  
Showajitensha's Avatar
Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Japan
Originally Posted by TimeTravel_0
I recommend ordering the back-issue of Bicycle Quarterly's Autumn 2008 "Japan Special" edition

https://www.bikequarterly.com/BQ71.html
Looks like I did miss a very interesting issue. Thanks for the recommendation, look forward to some good reading!
Showajitensha is offline  
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
chewybrian
Classic & Vintage
15
08-12-16 02:33 PM
peter_d
Classic & Vintage
4
02-07-13 02:29 PM
hairnet
Classic & Vintage
27
02-10-12 02:23 PM
1nterceptor
Advocacy & Safety
0
06-23-11 11:54 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.