Again, I know this isn't the proper place for it, but just to be even handed you should look at the issue from the other side. There is a valid economic and legal argument for the other side. Just as one example, dresses can't be copyrighted or patented, and knockoffs are a legal and valid part of that industry. *

It is a broad spectrum of rights you are talking about here, and what may be good for one corporation could possibly be bad for 2O others. Before you drink one company's Kool-Aid, you should try the other guy's Tang.

But I agree with you 100% - "the recent extensions to patents and copy rights go too far as well."

There is a happy median, but we are not there at the moment.

(* There is a distinction between designs and patterns on one hand, and brand names. I am not referring to trademarks - only copyrights and patents...)

I don't think you'd have much of a case unless they tried to sell it or represent it as authentic in some way that damaged your company.

Semi-related kind of interesting story in the same vein: 1988 I had a 3 or 4 year old cheap Peugeot that I rode to college and parked outside the math building. At that time, Campy SR hubs with the uniquely shaped oil hole covers were the mark of a top racing bike no matter what the brand - and in fact I did own a pair of sewups with such hubs. But for a gag, I drew fake oil hole covers with a Sharpie on the hubs of my Peugeot... most folks who knew about Campy SR hubs would at first say something like "nice hubs" and then get a good chuckle out of being fooled. But then there was the guy who STOLE MY REAR WHEEL while I was in class. I suppose the bahsturd got a good chuckle out of that when he got a better look.

I meant to include this in my original post but forgot to address this.

I lack the power to "grant" you any rights -I merely acknowledged what is a basic and universal human right.

I agree, it's a balancing act, like everything else. How long does the property holder have a right to make money and when does it infringe on consumer rights? Tough issues. I definitely think the balance was tipped with recent rules, but part of those rules were rationalized with the thefts taking place.

That being said, the whole sale theft taking place in China is not good for our country as a whole. You might have a slight advantage as a consumer, but the tax revenue and employment loss is far more severe.

Again, do some research. The drive to make changes and modifications and extensions started back in the 1970s, right about when Mickey Mouse's copyright was about to expire. I remember fellow 16mm film collectors being busted by the FBI and having all their legally acquired 16mm prints impounded. The 'thefts' that are going on 'now' have nothing to do with it - it's just an excuse to put out some PR releases. Like I said - try the Tang. It tastes just fine too, it's just different.

A free market adapts and evolves. Some corporations have a business case to change the rules in mid-game. Part of that business case involves protecting the status quo in an evolving market. I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong. I'm just saying.

Here's an on-topic response: I'd better buy some repro decals ASAP before someone buys the dead copyright and starts enforcing it! Or, what if I have a 1945 Raleigh Sport that needs refinishing - where do I get the decals from? Raleigh doesn't offer them...all the ones on the market are bootleg.

This is what I'm talking about. Time to get started on my World Sport Colagno replica. Wolagno? Nolagno? Schwolagno?

Keyword...RATIONALIZED.

You have an agenda and you are responding to what you want to respond to, not what was written. I never made an argument for moral right and wrong, I made an argument for interests. It's the competition for resources...otherwise known as politics. IP debate goes back hundreds of years and there has always been heated rhettoric over the proper balance of rights. Sure there is another side to the issue...there always is. When it becomes international in scope...we, as a country, loose.

Our interest, as a nation, is in preventing IP infringement on OUR companies. The other side here is Chinese manufacturing, consumers, mostly Chinese, and to a small extent...our consumers. You can make an argument for the benefit to American consumers, but the truth is the loss of tax revenue and employment outweighs that and contributes to trade deficets. Since I'm an American, I'm going to argue for my interests...protecting the IP of American companies. Sure there's another side...it's not the side I'm on. My company does substantial work for Microsoft...which means a healthy and profitable Microsoft benefits me directly with job security and brings tax revenue that benefits me.

We had a similar conversation a while back when a person was talking about repainting their bike as a Concord. My stance remains the same, making your bike a copycat is not as interesting or as cool as mocking it up to be something more original or obscure or self-depricating funny. Labeling the bike a 'Poseur' or playing a take on a more famous name, In the previous case I suggested making the bike a 'Flight of the Conchords' with the 'flight of' and 's' in a much smaller font. Rivendell has 'Resurecto' labels for no-name repaints. Personally If I liked MASI, I'd paint it up like a MASI, but probably label it as a MAZZY *Star* with a custom star graphic just to mess with my friends, but then I'm out of touch.

Oh, sorry - I missed that.

But to bring the conversation around back to on topic:

As a collector, I worry about the effect these laws have on my passion for collecting things. I really couldn't care less about a corporation - for any well run company, profits are like a game of whack-a-mole. If one kind get's whacked, a new one pops up somewhere else, or, of course, the dinosaur dies.

But when history and preservation and sharing these old things is affected by these profits or the pursuit of these profits, then it's wrong. Some of these new laws take this important part of copyright protection into account, and that's great. And that's something collectors (consumers) should fight for.

You can paint me with the 'us vs them' brush, or whatever. But we are all collectors, or else we wouldn't be here.

That would be fine for a museum piece, wall art if you wish. I don't know about the guys who built that, I like bikes that I can ride, and neither a 1961 Masi or the replica are really riding bikes. The 1961 probably should be refurbished as a museum piece. If I were building it, I would copy the dimensions and geometry, then using modern tubing with similar dimensions, build my copy, but with a couple of differences, I would build it for modern components. The idea is to have a new bike that rides like a classic one. Before anyone asks, it would have my name on it, not somebody else's name. There is a fine line between a reproduction and a forgery.

Well, there I disagree. I would have no problem whatsoever riding the replica.
I also think the decision not to refinish the original was the correct one.

I'd just have fun with it -

Heck...I'd even have to ride the original. I'd ride gingerly and infrequently, but I'd ride it.

If someone gave you the holy grail would you put it directly in a museam, or would you take a sip first? I'd take a sip.

Cue Indiana Jones.

Me too.

I'd slap my company logo on it ..:D

Scott

:roflmao2:

Which logo would it get? I think...wait for it...

Coors Light.

Green! No wait ... blue! Ahhhhhhhhh!

Why I like some character on my bikes - I'd hate to be the first one to put a scratch in a mint bike. Besides - if it's not been ridden, how can you know if it works?!!? What a drag to buy a $20,000 Masi and have the chain fall off every block!

I feel like that too. When something is too pretty, I spend too much time worried about keeping it that way. A little patina takes off a LOT of stress.

I bought a flawless, and I mean FLAWLESS, NOS Koga Miyata from Elev...it's just beautiful. Probably the single nicest paint job I've ever seen. I almost cried when it got its first scratch...and looking at the underside of the TT still makes me sweat with feelings of guilt. At the same time, it's a bike...and a tourer at that. It's meant to be used and to get some character marks. I bought it because I wanted a great commuter/do it all bike capable of loaded touring and cargo hauling. I can't even imagine how I'll feel when I give the Marnati its first nick.

He chose...poorly...

LOL
I bet Lucas (and legos) wants t sue this guy for making a "forgery"...

I'm taking a Univega and painting it, and decaling it with Bottecchia decals. Its what I want to do. If the OP wants to decal a bike for Masi, thats fine. Not really sure where this thread is headed.

Well, the OP did ask, "What's everyone's thoughts on replica frames." Pretty much open season at that point.

Cheap Chinese knockoff - if you look real close you can tell 'cause the real Indy doesn't have a mustache.

Not only that but the forger destroyed a vintage Lego model 58732 figurine to make this vignette -which is an insult to all colletors everywhere and he will surely go to hell (or jail) for it!

Lego drew!