Dawes-man

I like this post a lot for its layered approach... try this, then this and if that doesn't work, maybe this.. Thank you!

I don't see any sign of hardening, like you do on engine valves and tappet faces, for example.

I'm going to start by trying to dress the cup surfaces by wet sanding first. So far, I've only tried dry, although the paper I have is for both. I'm not very confident of success in this due to the difficulty of access, particularly in the outer cup with the pedal tang getting in the way. If that is as unsuccessful as I fear it will be, I shall try Unworthy1's grinding with compound idea.

If that fails I shall take the pedal and parts to a great little bearing shop in the Naka Meguro area of Tokyo, that I know from buying bearings for my 2 motorcycles and ask them what the possibilities are. It's only half a mile or so on from the engineering works I mentioned previously, which have done valve seat and guide work on cylinder heads I've taken there a couple of times. I'll do all that next Monday as I have a dental appointment nearby.

Then I'll try to get my head around the plastic ideas...

oak202

I've had some success regrinding cups and cones using a lathe, Dremel tool and lapping compound. So, if you have access to a lathe...

The cones are easy:
Thread the cone on the axle, lock it in place with the lock nut, and chuck up the axle in the lathe. Then, find a Dremel tip which has a stone with roughly the same diameter as the arc of the cone bearing surface. Doesn't have to be perfect, and you can modify the stone by shaping it while it's spinning, on something very hard - like a diamond dressing tool or a piece of carbide, or maybe even a rock. Start the lathe turning and grind the bearing surface using the Dremel tool. This is for the rough cut to get rid of the pits. Once they're gone, polish out the grinding marks from the stone using successively finer sandpaper and/or lapping compound. For the final polish, I like to wrap a piece of leather around a dowel and load it with lapping compound.

The cups are a bit trickier, but still do-able (I've done it once with a hub). Chuck up the pedal body in the lathe using a 4 jaw independent chuck, and center the cup (you could even use a dial indicator to get it really centered, but since we're holding the dremel tool by hand it will follow a slightly misaligned cup). Then find or make a Dremel tip which has a ball shaped stone which roughly matches the arc of the bearing surface and proceed as we did with the cone. Polishing out the grinding marks is more difficult on a cup, but one strategy would be to round a dowel to match the arc and glue sandpaper to it with contact cement, or just use it as a backer for whatever you polish with.

Now if the cup and cone are case hardened, this may not be a great solution. But if they are hardened all the way through, and I suspect they are, this will make your bearing as good as new - or even better if you really polish it well! The axle will sink a little farther into the body because we've removed some metal, but I wouldn't think it would be enough to bother anything. The pits can't be deeper than .5 mm, right?

Dawes-man

That sounds dismissive in a way I didn't mean it to be. What I meant was that I find the modifications to the components that using the iglide clip bearings, for example, would entail, intimidate me at my present spot on the learning curve.

Dawes-man

A lathe is one thing I haven't got although I've been thinking of getting one for ages now. Getting a Dremel was a big step for me and a torque wrench before that. This might be the moment...

Thanks for sharing your experience!

noglider 

Dawes-man, I'm sorry for offending you. My errors were clumsy, not ill-intentioned at all.

Restoring your pedals is your interest, and it took me a while to get that. I get it now.

My offer of my pedals was in good faith. I believed them to be British. If you don't like them, fine.

I intended no harm, and I'm sorry to upset you.

Dawes-man

noglider,

Thank you for your very gracious post. I am pleased to put this out of my mind and to regard you as a sympathetic member of this forum.

I am sorry for turning my nose up at your pedals. They are as I said but there is nothing wrong with them. I have an NOS pair of the earlier version but unfortunately with French threads and I am in fact looking for a pair of English threaded spindles for them. How are the spindles in yours?

Thank you again for taking the trouble to post.

noglider 

I hoist a beer to you, Dawes-man.

The pedals run well, and I'll see if I can open them and inspect them. If they look good on the inside, I'll take pictures, and you can see if they might fit your pedals. We're looking to see if the contours and dimensions are a good match. My pedals are English-threaded.

Dawes-man

And I to you, noglider.

I'm sure the cup and ball dimensions will be the same as they are the same in these as in my 460D and Marcel Berthet Lyotard pedals. I think the only crucial thing will be the spindle length and distance between cone and spindle bearing race. These are 118.3mm end to end and 100mm between the cone end of the spindle and the shoulder just after the spindle bearing surface, if that makes sense. Put another way, the end that screws into the crank measures 18.3mm across and the bit that fits in the pedal body 100mm.

rhm

Understood. I don't think you should modify what remains of your pedals in any way; but rather find some other kind of bearing that will fill the space designed for the ring of steel balls. If someone is already making something that will fit, it will be a very cheap part. They will probably send you free samples. I doubt it would be cost effective to have something custom made, but if you went that route you'd be getting hundreds of them. So if they work you'd have plenty of extras to sell on ebay.

Dawes-man

Now that I've stopped laughing... that sounds like a really good idea. I mentioned a bearing shop earlier and I wonder if they just do metal or plastic too. I'll see next Monday. Thanks rhm!

rhm

^okay, but if you get rich off this, I want my cut.

Dawes-man

But of course

Hey, maybe I can get this after all: https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...#ht_550wt_1141

I could saw off the rear triangle for ya...

rhm

Yeah, you're not the only one who saw that Hetchins... my size, but not my price range! Those bent stays can be straightened, right?

Dawes-man

I think so... the ones on my Nulli Secundus have been. Don't know how but you they done did a great job...

[IMG]
IMG_5261 by Dawes-man, on Flickr[/IMG]

I know... I know... just an excuse

Lenton58 

Slightly off topic, but as you are showing your Hetchins I am really wanting to know who painted it. Did you have to send it to Osaka, or is there somewhere/someone in Tokyo? If so — any which way — can you say here, or send me a PM in order to lend me some info? I'm at the mercy of 2nd parties here in Sendai, and there is no one here who is set up specifically for bicycle painting. Sort of unbelievable but true. — Lorne

Dawes-man

Off-topic but I think there might be some interest here so...

It was painted by Argos in the UK. A friend with a wonderful collection of English lightweights from the 30s to 50s reckons it's impossible to get such a good job done in Japan, certainly not at the price - £247/33,000 yen/US$390 for bead-blasting, rust coat, undercoat, top coat (dunno if 1 or 2), repro transfers, old stock Reynolds transfer, remove/paint/replace head badge and clearcoat everything. Might be worth sending from Japan as the shipping would be around 30,000 yen.
https://www.argoscycles.com/renovation-pricelist.htm

Mike Mills

Hardening only the surface is called case hardening. It allows you to get a hard surface for long life but retain an unhardened, tougher core for strength.

You can also through-harden steels. The steel is then hard all the way through but it lacks the tough core.

Lenton58 

OFF-TOPIC:
Dawes-man: Thanks for the paint info. From what I know myself, your friend is right — which all things considered is amazing to me. I've not got a bike as valuable as yours, and I suspect that I will not have one in the near future. Any project of mine that includes refinishing will probably get sent to Osaka for powder-coating. And that costs about twice what it does in the USA.

Dawes-man

Thanks for the info, Mike! It's really useful to learn about this stuff!

CrankyFranky

Back on topic, I vote for a multiple-grade lapping compound refacing of the cups/cones. It may be hard to find a graded set of carborundum powders for this purpose, but they can be had... at least, I have a six-grit set. I envision starting at the coarsest grit in a little grease, assembling the axle in the pedal, adjusting it gingerly, and spinning...thus lapping cups and cones on both ends at once... following on with a thorough cleaning and then, the next finer grit, assemble again, you get the picture. Change the balls a few times, they're cheap... then, if all looks reasonably ok, new balls and grease. Don't go overboard - these were never Campys to begin with. If you have to re-address them next season then, well, you know how to do it.

Isn't life grand?

Lenton58 

There are national chain DIY stores in Japan — and presumably with in our friend's reach in Tokyo. On any day he should be able to casually obtain a supply of at least four grades of compound. I used three of them to work on my Vitus frame. Whether these compounds are carborundum or not I don't know.

noglider 

What's a DIY store? Is it like Home Depot? Not sure if you even have Home Depot in Canada, but I'm sure you have something like it.

Wogster

DIY store would be something like Home Depot, Canada actually has a bunch of them, Home Depot is one, Rona-Lansing is another, Home Hardware, Canadian Tire, and Lowes through their hat into the market a little over a year ago, not that there wasn't enough competition already, not sure how that helps the OP considering they are in JAPAN.

Mike Mills

yw, I was just trying to fill in some of the gaps in this thread. I think someone asked about this difference.

noglider 

I asked about Canada because that's where Lenton is from.