manage to get hold of a suntour superbe rear derallier in good working,need to know how is it compare to shimano in terms of performance and weight.
Any website for reference.
Please advise.

Lew,

there are quite a few folks around who feel that Suntour Superbe was the
pinnacle of friction shifting, and to be truthful, I can't disagree with that
notion. Of course it doesn't have the cache of Campy Super Record, or
Shimano DuraAce but it does outperform both of them.

Marty

Regular middle of the road Suntour derailleurs outshifted Shimano's and Campy's top end stuff! This was not only proven by the people that owned and raced the products but also documented in Consumer Reports back in the early 80's. Suntour Superbe and even Cyclone overall was lighter and far more durable then Shimano or Campy stuff. BUT, there were a couple of companies that had lighter rear and front derailleurs then either Suntour, Shimano or Campy, those were the Huret Jubilee last generation (the one with the holes drilled into the the cage) and Zues which also had the holes; the Huret was the lightest at around 120grms-lighter then today's Campy Record which is at 187grms!!!! But the Huret and the Zues did not shift anything like the Suntour and in fact were known to shift sloppy and race teams in Europe being sponsered by either Huret or Zues were frustrated over the crappy shifting.

The Huret Jubilee was quite light even before they drilled the holes. Hole drilling was the method of choice in the '70s for reducing weight and there were all sorts of flexy drilled-out components available. If I remember properly, the Zeus (was it 2000?) derailleur was also light because it had investment cast steel parts (thin) and Ti bolts. I have the regular version of this derailleur (criterium) and it doesn't shift bad, but rather like an old campy record. This isn't surprising, since it appears to be a copy.

Superbe was the best in its day.
Located a pair of Superbe pedals at the local bike swap meet last year, got 'em for 5 bucks. The smoothest turning pedals! No plastic and the innards are engineered like an real old Swiss watch.
In the 70s and 80s we much preferred Suntour over Shim or Camp!

As has already been said the Superbe components were very well made and durable. I still have some pedals, brakes etc that have been in use for over 20 yrs

The SunTour slant planograph, almost universally copied by competitors when its patent expired, was as fundamental a breakthrough as the 1951 Campag. Gran Sport parallelogram. SunTour Cyclones and Superbes are some of the finest rear derailleurs ever made. I tolerate the original Campag. Nuovo Record on the Bianchi to keep it authentic and because it looks so good, but even my lowly old SunTour V-Luxe, which I used for several years on the Capo, shifts better. Both Peugeots have SunTour Cyclone rear derailleurs, which represent huge improvements over their respective generations of Simplex.

I have a Suntour Superbe rear d and pedals on my vintage Trek road bike. Amazing stuff. The best part is my uncle just had the parts lying around and gave them to me, along with perfect Campy dt shifters, fr d and some other random bits. Its a bit of a mutt, but it rides as nice as just alot of new bikes, is an average of 20 years older, and was set up for under 100 bucks out of pocket.

I remember picking up a set of Superbe Pro brakes from Pedal Pushers (are they still around?) in Jacksonville, FL while on vacation in the Spring of 1983. Man, I was so proud of those brakes.

I had a Nishiki Comp III for a team bike in 1987 that was fully Superbe Pro and was the last of my friction equipped bikes.

Thanks for all the inputs,BTW anyone happen to have any reference website to view explode diagram of suntour RD.
i would like to check if there is any missing part on the RD.

WOW, a bunch of fellow Suntour groupies. Just too add something I forgot to mention in my earlier post; my bike is 20 years old, the bike and the Superbe components all have over 145,000 miles and never had a mechanical breakdown!! In fact when I heard Suntour was going bankrupt, I went down to an LBS and bought a set of Superbe derailleurs and pedals (that's all I had money for at the time and the LBS guy said those parts would be the most likely to break) just in case mine broke! (I was afraid I won't be able to get parts for them). I still have those parts unused in their original boxes.

Here's the only web site that I know of that might be what your looking for: https://totalbike.com/reference/suntour/

Is there a difference between the Superbe and Superbe Pro? Or are they the same thing? If they are different what exactly is the difference?

Someone I know in my cycling club has an old Schwinn World Sport (not original) that is equipped with a complete Superbe Pro TRACK component group. Boy, some people have all the luck!

any suntour maniac can comment on the quality between Superbe and Superbe Pro?

My plan for my next project bike is an early '80's steel frame, completely built with Suntour Superbe Pro.

This is a departure as all of my bikes are Campy but I think the Superbe is a valuable benchmark. Building a full Superbe Pro group will certainly take time but I think it will make a nice bike.

1st gen dura ace (with the moveable gate) - 190 g
nuovo record - 194 g
2nd gen super record - 191 g (!) I thought they were lighter!
1st gen suberbe - 170 g
superbe pro - 186 g
Excel Rino rear - 175 g
and for comparison a Campy Gran Turismo - 363 g

They all move the chain. I think that the superbe and the Excel are the best in the pile, but the differences between any of the slant parallograms are very slight. The older campys just don't quite work as well...and by that I mean that the lever has to be moved well beyond where it needs to end up to cause a shift (Simplex seems to be the worst in terms of lever travel and overshifting). This is dependent on lever, cog and chain as well, so the setup options have quite an effect on shifting. The bottom line is that whatever setup you use, if you ride regularly the hand learns where the cogs are and how to move to make the change. Clicking is pretty much a beautiful marketing scheme IMHO. Unless, of course, you're up out of the saddle and all strung out at 186 bpm making a little rise at the finish line, and need that extra tooth to outsprint your buddy...then clicking comes into its own.

Bianchi and Capo: Campag. rear derailleurs for historically correctness and appearance only.

Peugeots and Schwinn:Suntour rear derailleurs for function.

There might be a quality difference, depending on the year the components were made. Essentially, the Superbe line was introduced as the top-end in 1977. Later, in 1981, the line's name was changed to Superbe Pro. So, for any Superbe component built prior to 1981, the quality is comparable with Superbe Pro (outside of improvements in the line as a whole).

After 1981, you see the line split into Superbe Pro and Superbe. In 1983, another Superbe line was added (diluting the name even more)--the Superbe Tech line. This is an undesirable component set.

Stick with pre-'81 Superbe, or later Superbe Pro or Cyclone lines. I have ridden both for years and recommend them highly.

For more info, read the excellent article "Sunset for Suntour":

https://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/page35.htm

It's a LOT more detailed and an entertaining read.

-Michael

I still have the same set of these brakes on my sweet heart. Oh, the red brake shoes.

Superbe Pro RD are the best. It will run circles around Shimano. Damn I wanted Campy on my bike so bad, cause every pic on Velo News had campy. I was 17 with a summer job.

Jeff

The 1985 and 1986 Superbe componets were the best of their era. But, that was the moment in time that Shimano perfected indexed shifting. And, in 1987, Shimano introduced SLR braking. About 1990, Shimano introduced STI. Sun Tour was a tiny, underfunded company that got buried in the tidal wave of new technology.

But, if you like friction shifting, you can't do better than the Superbe. Rivendell has contracted with a supplier to make "new" copies of the shifters that were used with the Superbe changers. The advantage of the Rivendell shifters is that they work well with any of the old gear changers, any freewheel or cassette, five speed, six, seven, eight speed...it works with them all. Add a Sachs/Sedis/SRAM chain (whatever name they are using this week) with the Rivendell shifters and your 1970's or 1980's drivetrain is ready for the road.

I heard of some bad things about the Superbe Tech derailleurs BUT maybe I might be the exception rather then the rule (?), because my rear derailleur is the Tech model made in 83 or 84 and that unit has over 140,000 miles and still shifting strong. Just last weekend my front derailleur finally broke, but it was the thin band that went around the seat tube that broke (due to rust) not any moving parts; fortunately I had the spare new Superbe derailleur, so I just put it on when I got home.

Here's a question I need answered.....

On the Mondia I'm rebuilding, there is a Suntour Superbe RD mated to a Suntour Winner 13-26T 6 speed freewheel. I have a spare Shimano Hyperglide 12-28T 7 speed freewheel. Can I swap them? Does the short little Suntour Superbe have enough reach for a 28T cog?

Sure would be nice to have a little more low end around all these hills......

John D.

Theoretically - no. Depending on which version you have, the advertised maximum cog size was 24T (early) to 26T (late/Pro). However, in practice it is often possible to use slightly larger cogs. This is because manufacturers like to play things on the safe side and because all dropout hangers do not have have the same dimensions.

Presumibly, SunTour would have measued the Superbe's limit using one of their own racing dropouts. Suntour racing dropouts had the smallest dimension from the axle position to the derailleur mounting hole. As this dimension inceases, so does the dimension from the axle to the jockey pulley, which is the dimension that limits maximum cog size. So any other dropouts where this dimension is larger may allow you run a larger cog, if the difference is great enough.

Also, the limit is generally established by positioning the axle in line with the seat stays. Moving the axle farther back in the dropout will increase the distance to the derailleur mount and should increase the maximum cog limit. However, it will also wrap more chain around the cogs and as such will slightly ****** the point of derailleur shifting.

Depending on SunTour's safety factor, the version of derailleur and type of dropout you have, it may be possible to run a 28T. The bottom line is that you would have to try it, to be sure. If you post your derailleur version and dropout brand/model, hopefully someone on the forum will have tried your particular combination and can post a definitive answer.

T-Mar, as usual, a very informative reply, thanks!

The RD I have is marked "Suntour Superbe" on it's face, and "Maeda Industries, LTD. Japan XB" on the rear. Thre are no other markings. It does not look like a "Pro" version, and is not marked as one.

The dropouts are Campagnolo. When I got the bike (assembled & ridable) it was configured with this RD and 26T cog, and they were working fine together. As near as I and the shop can tell, this bike is circa 1974. But then again, the fellow that's doing the restoration is almost positive that the bike would have come originally with Campagnolo stuff, not Suntour. He's pretty confident that the RD and FD were added later, as an upgrade. FWIW, the BB, headset, and both hubs are Campagnolo.

I have a spare wheel that I can put the 28T freewheel on for experimentation purposes, so I guess I'll give it a try when the frame gets back from the painter. I was hoping to make the swap while I was waiting, but another week or two of waiting won't kill me......I think......


Regards,

John D.

Actually, Superbe Pro was pretty good indexed when mated with indexed Suntour Accushift Bar Ends or Suntour Command shifters (the poor man's STI). I'm still using Superbe Pro with Bar Ends on one of my bikes.

The drilled version of the Huret Jubilee was heavier.