Hey everyone. I think that once I'm done with my mountain bike build, I want to build a tubular wheelset for my modern day road bike. This wheelset would be strictly race-only or for some of the faster group rides I've started doing.

Anyway, I figured that probably the easiest and cheapest way to go about this would be to use vintage tubular rims.

So, does anyone have some favorite lightweight tubular rims that are also pretty stiff? I'm pretty much a stick, and am really good at climbing. Lightweight and stiff are two important qualities for this application, as I'd like some advantages besides my motor when making a move on a climb. Also, I know it's not really applicable to ask for super low spoke count as a factor in vintage rims, but something like a 24 front by 28 in the back would work too. Not as picky about this last bit.

My baseline for weight is something like a Mavic 280. I mean, it's not a baseline. It's just a number. But, 280s weren't that stiff. I'd say stiff is like a GP4 or a CX18.

Anybody know some weight weenie vintage rims?

I'm not sure what you consider "cheap", but I've seen these types of rims go for a couple hundred bucks if they are NOS. You can still buy sew-up rims these days. Velocity is one manufacturer I can think of off the top of my head. And they are not super deep aero rims. I start looking at ebay and/or start looking around for some swaps in your area.

I don't really care about them being NOS, is the thing. Bling isn't my thing. Otherwise I would already own a set of Zero38 carbon tubulars.

Super Champion Medaille D Or at 260 grams. I had a set of wheels built with these and they flew. Cross winds were a bit tricky though. And I tended to do wheelies(front wheel pick up anyway) when starting off from a stop.

Stiffness comes from the spokes. I'm not familiar with the idea of stiff rims. I think that may be a new thing with deep profile rims, which I detest.

I feel like a noticeable amount of flex could be seen pushing down on a GEL 280 rim compared to a CX18 I had.

Did you notice any significant flex with those rims? Ever do any sprints on them?

Get something with about a 25mm profile (for stiffness) like the Mavic Mach 2 CD2 or Wolber Profil TX. Saavedra Turbo Aerodinamicas are very light and stiff, if you can find them. Be sure to lace them with double butted spokes. They save weight and make a stronger wheel.

Or, at 5 grams heavier, the Super Champion "Performance" may be a good choice. Super Champion Arc En Ciel (barking seals..) were also popular in the late '70s, but a tad heavier, as were the Ambrosio Montreal, another good rim.
Other popular lightweights were the Fiamme Yellow Label (ergal) and Nisi Sludi, but those will likely cost a bit more than the Super Champion rims. Lots of good, light rims around 30 years ago.

You know, I had a pair of 280s, 330s, Fiamme Ergals, Nisi Sludis, and Super Champion Arc en Ciels. They were all pretty light, but substantial differences when compared with each other. It was really interesting.

..and which did you find most to your liking? I'm curious.
I've heard that Ergals had a reputation for cracking, but haven't tried 'em.

None of them were ever laced. Just pairs of rims. Mostly NOS. Again - NOS isn't my thing. feeBay loved them though.

I still have a 36hole Ergal right here. Appears to be as easy to flex as the Mavic GEL 280s, but very light weight and would probably make a very strong 36hole wheel.

I was going to suggest Ergals. They were pretty delicate but, if you're a "stick" like me, they should fit the bill.

TheOtherGuy: "barking seals" ...I love that.

well if I was going to the expense of building a set of tubulars (well any wheel for that matter) I may reuse a good hub but not someone elses old rims.

good NOS rims like Mavic and Campy are very pricy. I scored a few nice sets of Ambrosios off ebay and some other sources. I agree use a newer rim from Sun or Mavic.

back in the day I don't recall many racers running two 280s unless they were very light riders or time trial wheels. a 330 in the back and 280 front was sometimes a good mix.

Only thing I didnt like about them was they seemed to float out in when cornering. Kinda skittering when cornering hard. I felt more confident on Arc en Ceils.

I just won some tubular wheels on ebay that should be here shortly and they are built with Super Champion Record du Monde 310g rims. I'll give you a report when I get them.

If you are building a modern wheel set then the hubs are most likely going to be 32 hole.
For stiff, avoid 28's
In 32 hole Super Champion should be good, you may have to file the joint though.
I used them and they held up well.
For much higher cost, Martano's had machined braking surfaces, which you may be used to with many modern rims. In 32 hole on ebay they will be expensive. If you find a cheap set at a shop buy them and then you might be tempted to sell them on ebay...
Also, I amost forgot, I like Fir rims too. They often fly below the radar, as do Wobler.

I may be able to point you to a set of Fiamme Hard Silvers, which are as light as I've seen.

For durability, I like a set of Ambrosio Cronos. Very nearly as light, within a few grams, I believe, but only from experience.
I'll PM you on a build...

I used to have a set of wheels built up with Nisi Laser rims that were very stiff. Not sure you'd consider them light at about 400g.

Weenie and stiff is a hard combination to achieve as stiffness usually comes with some weight penalty.
A good stiff tubular rim to build a wheelset around is the Wolber Profil 20 aero rims I have both Wolber Profil 20 and Mavic 280GEL wheelsets I built last year and I can really feel the difference between two. Even with less spokes the Profils (28 spokes) beat the 280s (32 spokes) hands down when it comes to stiffness. The 280's are so lightly constructed that I can even see a slight bit of wavyness in the right light on the rim walls just from the static tension pull of the spokes.
Forget using the 280s if you want stiff, go to at least the GL330s or try rims like the Wolber Profils instead.

Chombi

as far as long-lasting vintage rims, look for Mavic GP-4, about 400g each. With a 250g tire, that makes for a lighter rim mass than most clincher wheels. However, I know more than a few very strong riders who ride GEL 330 or GEL 280 pairs on the road regularly (not just for parades), and have no complaint about strength or durability. With rims such as these, go with 32 spokes per.

I've gotten NOS pairs of these as low as $50. Ebay prices are quite variable - don't just go by the highest numbers anyone has seen.

If you need high-aero tubular wheels, you're not in the C&V category.

Roval wheels have been around since the 80's (or earlier).

Lots of interesting viewpoints here. I have no problem using rims that are straight and round respectively.

I sold all my 280s and 330s because they were flexy even as rims. No intention of buying more. If anybody has some Saavedras, I'm incredibly interested in a pair of Turbos.

Otherwise, I'm off to see a man about some music...

I would think flexing a rim that is not laced would tell you nothing important since it is the spoke tension that is going to make it "stiff" for the most part. That said I have a set of nos Rigida's if you want to check them out in 32h (i think) and my old truing stand is surplus now if you need one.

I might add that at your weight you can probably ride any sketchy light weight weenie wheel with impunity.

That's what I figured, too.

ti spokes Saaveadra rims etc...

As you're aware sir I have a set of NOS Saavedra Turbo Aerodinamicas in 32H. (Got your PM )

My plan is still to build them up for my Opus IV, although that will happen a bit later as I came across a set of Mavic Reflex clinchers, gunmetal gray, 32H on DA7700 hubs for a price you simply wouldn't believe. These will be the Opus' everyday wheels with the Saavedras (on Ultegra 6500 hubs) as the fun wheels.

Unless of course I get jiggy and relace both sets and combine the Reflex with the 6500s as the everyday set and the Saavedras on the 7700 hubs as the fun wheels.

Choices choices.