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51 clubman parts query

Old 04-19-11, 10:14 AM
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marcoslagosalado
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51 clubman parts query

Hello, as wondering if you could give opinions about a 51 Raleigh clubman--i have just the frame, forks, cranks-bb plus headset. Decals are all visible but no blue paint left save for where the cable clamps were. Chrome on forks/rear triangle is stellar. Anyhow, as there are no wheels or other parts, was wondering if you think it's ok [spirit of the era] to use sun 590s for the alloy wheels and honjo/vo smoooth fenders for the bluemels [size?]. It seems the 597 size is limited in terms of tires or even finding them--or should i do 700c/27, if so what recommendations for rims--also for calipers i am thinking of using modern till i can find period-correct at a decent price, then swap out....lastly, having followed a contentious thread here abt clubmans, i promise to listen respectfully thanks, Mark
p.s. i have a 52 alloy aw hub, would use this, eventually find an AM...
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Old 04-19-11, 10:24 AM
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Mark, if your Clubman is a '51, it would have come with 27" wheels. Fwiw, my '50 came with an FW hub, and my '51 with an AM.

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Old 04-19-11, 10:30 AM
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I saw a nice 597 tire the other day. Where was that. It was even labeled 26x1 1/4 instead of 26x1 3/8-SCHWINN. Rims are hard to find but even alloy ones show up on Ebay every now and then.
590s are easy and look pretty good.
700s will probably fit. If you have some, go ahead and use them till you find 597s. Fender clearance might be an issue if you use fat ones. On the Sports, they say 700x28s are the biggest you get in there but the Clubman is a little different.
I've probably got a set of Sports brakes you can have. They're not the older ones so the chrome isn't as nice.
Of course we want to see some pictures.

Edit-Mr. Lerner beat me too it. I was guessing that this was a 26" bike. If it's a 27" then ignore everything I said.

Last edited by sailorbenjamin; 04-19-11 at 10:32 AM. Reason: sumothaguy smatta and fasta.
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Old 04-19-11, 10:36 AM
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Hello Mark! I'm sure many of us look forward to photos!

597 rims have several disadvantages, of which two stand out: (1) you can't get them and (2) you can't get good tires for them. Don't bother.

Sun CR18's in 590 have the singular advantage that they're available in 32/40 drilling. You won't find that in any other new rim, as far as I can tell. They also have the advantage of very nice tires being available --Panaracer Col de Vie. But they are very fat tires, and might not give the look you want (depending what look you want, of course).

590's have the distinct disadvantage that brake reach is pretty long. So don't commit yourself to that rim size until you're sure you have brakes that will fit.

Another way to go would be 700c rims; brakes and tires would be pretty easy to fit, and it is pretty easy to lace a 32H rim to a 40H hub. For this you need two different spoke sizes, so it might be a job your local bike shop won't want to tackle. Do you build wheels?

I have 27" rims on three of my old (1950's) bikes, but that's mainly because I already have them. If I were buying new rims now, I would rather go with 700c.

For the fenders, you don't really have to worry about diameter. They adjust well enough to fit any wheel in the range we're talking about here. Smooth Honjos are not, in my opinion, the right look; but it's really hard to find white bluemels club specials, which is what you really want. So if you have to go with Honjos or Velo Orange fenders, we will understand. I would suggest you don't worry about the fenders until you have figured out the hubs, rims, tires, and brakes. When the time comes, get fenders that fit the tires you chose.

Originally Posted by nlerner
Mark, if your Clubman is a '51, it would have come with 27" wheels.
Neal, when Raleigh changed the wheel size on a frame, going from 26 x 1 1/4 to 27 x 1 1/4, did they change the frame/fork measurement? That is, did the distance between brake hole and dropout change?

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Old 04-19-11, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rhm
Neal, when Raleigh changed the wheel size on a frame, going from 26 x 1 1/4 to 27 x 1 1/4, did they change the frame/fork measurement? That is, did the distance between brake hole and dropout change?
According to my measurements (which means a high chance of inaccuracy), that dropout to brake hole measurement is the same for both forks, the '49 with its 597mm wheel and the '50 with its 630mm wheel. I'm not quite sure where that extra 33mm is on the '50 Clubman.

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Old 04-19-11, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nlerner
According to my measurements (which means a high chance of inaccuracy), that dropout to brake hole measurement is the same for both forks, the '49 with its 597mm wheel and the '50 with its 630mm wheel. I'm not quite sure where that extra 33mm is on the '50 Clubman.

Neal
I believe you're right. When I first built up my Fothergill, I used 27" wheels and early 50's GB Coureur brakes. Those brakes wouldn't quite reach to 590 mm rims. Now I've switched to 26" (650A / 590's) and late 40's GB standard brakes, which have a slightly longer reach, and the fit is fine. I don't know what wheel size the frame was intended for, but evidently it would fit any of the ones commonly used at that period.
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Old 04-19-11, 04:45 PM
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My '51 definitely has 27" stainless steel rims and GB brakes (not sure which model, but they're stock). If you're starting from scratch, though, I see no reason not to go with 700c. I bought white NOS Bluemels fenders not quite two years ago from a guy who said he had a couple more pairs of them left; I doubt he still has them, but PM me if you want his info.
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Old 04-19-11, 07:09 PM
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Thanks, for the info so far. I think i am inclined twd sun590s, for the 32/40 thing plus nice tires. i believe tektro 800A calipers will be an inexpensive alloy option with enuf reach till i find those late 40s, early fifties GB's. i do have an extra set of later steel/chrome sports calipers but don't really want to use them. What stem type/quill lenght did the stock clubmans have, is GB spearpoint a specifc item or a range of lengths/reaches? If i get it running soon will probably use a technomic until finding correct stem.
Also will try to post a foto later. Thanks, Mark
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Old 04-19-11, 07:28 PM
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Pic of 27" fork with 800A brakes and 590 wheels.

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Old 04-20-11, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by markinsaltlake
What stem type/quill length did the stock clubmans have, is GB spearpoint a specifc item or a range of lengths/reaches?
Take a look at this ebay auction.
https://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Raleigh-...item19c4dc5256
BUT BE SURE to take a look at THIS THREAD as well. Another forum member bought that handlebar and found it so badly bent he had to return it.

As for the GB spearpoint stems, yes, they came in a variety of lengths. I think they were measured in half inch increments, but the ones I've seen are mostly 3" or 3.5".
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