The Super JIC Course predates the Campagnolo Gran Sport by 5 years... it was the first true parallelogram derailleur.

I always give thanks to Nobuo Ozaki for the genius that was the slant parallelogram as if you use a modern derailleur you are benefiting from his genius.

But the quick release skewer is all Tullio. I'm facing Italy and genuflecting.

Snob value and bragging rights. Which has been Campy's entire reason for survival all those decades. The snob value got them through the mid-80's when their product was at best definitely inferior to just about all the competition. And, at worst, pure utter overpriced crap that was handed out for free to professional racers.

And Campy's still about snob value and bragging rights. And a great lack of interchangeability between lines and cassettes.

If I may.........don't mean to hijack, really......

I have an old Bottecchia Giro D'Italia. I almost sold it because I thought it too big, but I swapped out the saddle.....for one with lower rails....and, well, it's "fits". Anyway, it came equipped with 1st gen. Cyclone set, but I'm leaning towards putting something a bit more "ornate" on it.......eventually repainting and putting some repro' decals on it. In looking for something ornate, I originally started out hunting down Campy stuff thereby notching up the classification to the "Professional" line. But, I read a lot of comments on the finicky nature of older Campy bits. So, the early Arabesque stuff caught my eye. I actually like how it looks better than the Campy of the era.....but, that's me. That aside, I wonder how well it performs comparatively to same era Campy. Cyclone is still primo in that dept. for me, but would any of you care to share some experience, if any? Please.....

Yeah but Wing Nuts are cooler.

I'm in exact the same boat as Captain Blight. Been a SunTour lover and proud of it and don't own a stitch of Campag stuff and proud of that too......But I'm tempted. By both a vintage NR setup and a modern Record Ergopower setup.

good thing the price is turning me off but I won't lie and say I haven't been keeping my eyes peeled for a Campy equipped donor.

Oh boy, here we go.

If you already have Japanese stuff, why not try Campy? The old Record series is the all-time classic component group, that set the standard and had no peers for 20 years. I would think any vintage buff would want to have at least one Campy-equipped bike.

SunTour didn't actually make anything -- they were a small design house and outsourced their manufacturing to other companies. That said, their designs were often innovative and well executed.

Campy did most, but not all of their manufacturing in house.

I'm assuming you're replying to me???

If so, yeah......all I have is Japanese sets save a couple of Stronglight cranks and one Duopar derailleur. But, if you'd educate me a little, maybe just share some old Campy names to start looking at; ie, C- record, Tipo, Nuevo, etc. Which ones perform well? If it looks "fetching", I can appreciate that, but I don't want something on my bike that won't shift well, either.

You're referring to Maeda ind's? No?

Nuovo, not Nuevo. Its Italian, not Spanish.

Couldn't remember the spelling offhand. I'm sure you know what I was talking about, though....right? No suggestions?

Why is a C&V better than a modern Cf bike?

I'd buy a Campy toilet if the made one.

Its such a common thing to see it spelled wrong that I assume that most folks are actually not aware that they're spelling it wrong.

But yes, I knew what you meant.....well enough to correct you unfortunately that's where my Campagnolo knowledge ends

Even if the crank arms are cracked you just need to file that section down and get rid of the hard edges. As for the Campy hoopla. I was never a road guy until about two years ago and was bit hard. Now all I have is Campy except my OCR1 with has Shimano 105 but I haven't touched anything on that bike.

Campangnolo: Il parte scuro.

Where does this stuff come from? It shifts fine. It is different from todays, click me and I will comply. Between my Campy SR and Cyclone RD on the same chain and a regina freewheel, honestly its hard to tell the difference. With the straight cogs of the regina you just get used to overshifting and trimming back the shift, so much so after an amount of time that you can make that shift very quick and fluid. I will say that the Campy to me has a stiffer feel to the shift due to the design/spring and Bullseye pulleys I run. Not harder to shift, just not a mushy feel that I get with the cyclone. It was designed at a time when the RD was made to do the shifting, not the combination of the chain and cog tooth/cut with RD to act as a guide and take up chain slack.

Record ("Nuovo") and Super Record from around '73 to around '85 are the quintessential Campy groups to acquire.

The 86 and 87 Campy cranks were redesigned to avoid any cracking in the arms, however they don't have the fluting on the arms that gave the campy equipped bike that well deserved look.

Just about any derailleur works better with an HG or UG cog... the straight cut teeth on old freewheels can be a little ratchet like even with the best derailleurs although many of the later Suntour freewheels shifted quite nicely and are better inside than most Shimano freewheels.

Where does it come from? Hehe........just stuff I read, man. Different opinions/experiences from different folks. It makes it all the more perplexing, though, to read the less than satisfied and still see older Campy equipment on vintage classics. You know, then I get to wondering if people are installing just have something really sweet to look at even though it might work marginally to just decently. That's all. And, that's why I'm asking.

Thanks for the info. It's what I was wanting to know. Your description of how it feels it most helpful. Now, I just have to see when I could cough up enough change for the parts here and there. I think I'll keep my Stronglight 93, though. I really like it.....even if it is a bugger to get chainrings for.

I'll attest to that. I have two 7spd Suntour freewheels that shift great. One is an AP 13-30 and the other is something around the same time period......a 13-28....but, I don't remember the model offhand. It shifts equally well, though. Ah.....and, I have one 5spd UG freewheel and that sucker does shift nicely. I like how it sounds, too. Conversely, I have a 5spd Suntour 14-32 that shifts like dog dung. I'm going to break it down and use some of the cogs to build a half step sometime. Maybe tweak the teeth as I've read about others doing.

Anyway, thanks for the input, gentlemen. <<<thumbs up>>>>

I'm sure it'll help in running searches.......knowing the correct spelling and all.

The above might help explain the various views of Campagnolo Shifting performance. The Nuovo Record was designed for racing ratios of the era, so no bigger than 26t basically. And 24t was better. 28t can be done, but it requires effort on some bikes to set up, and does come with reduced performance compared to the tighter ratios. The last generation Super Record does better and was changed to swing the 7 and 8 speed blocks. The Nuovo Record was not, 6 at the rear with normal spacing.

There is no question that the Suntour slant parallelogram is the better design. It is unfortunate that Suntour took so long to create a pro level ensemble. So it goes.

I do think a vintage lightweight enthusiast should consider a full Campagnolo Nuovo Record era bike. It was the standard to which others aspired for over 15 years. The overall package of aesthetics, finish, materials and repairability was the standard. Did Campagnolo get complacent? Yes. But their dominance in racing for the pros and amateurs cannot be denied. Weinmann 500's can stop as well as Campagnolo brakes, but what one adjusts easier, has a superior level of finish, and is more elegant?

+1, it is ALL about the freewheel. I was originally using a wide range ATOM freewheel with my Campy NR equipment and it was absolutely terrible. I switched in a tighter 6 speed Suntour freewheel and a Sram chain and it made a huge improvement. At this point I would say it is my smoothest, quietest vintage setup... and that includes Suntour Cyclone and nice Japanese parts of the day.

So, let's say I did manage to acquire some Campy stuff for my Bottecchia. What would you recommend? No more than 6spds in the rear? If I couldn't go over more than 24 or 26 for a top cog, that means (for me) I'd had have to run a pretty compact double up front to make it around some of these hills. Didn't Campy make some long cage stuff? Where I could run a 28t or 30t and still have it shift well? I mean, I've already thought I'd run a super compact on the crank.......like 45 and 30 (by modifying the crank), but lately I was thinking differently. Meh.....I dance around like the shade on a breezy, summer day sometimes.

I agree with nearly everyone else on the shifting performance based on cog range. I have to ride up a steep hill to get home from rides. My bike is nearly all original. I did swap out the rear 6spd for a 7sp with 14(?)-28. I also use a SRAM 8spd chain, 870 I think. The only time I use the 28 is to climb the hill. All my equip. is SR so the small ring is 42 and the RD works fine with the 28. I tried 30 but it was too risky with the possibility of using it with the 52 ring. (Yes I use to cross chain accidentially!). Being over 50, I am not out for racing but appreciate what is under me and its "character".