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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
(Post 12759211)
The picture of Ms Loren is actually a good example of why Italian bicycles and components fetch so much more than their counterparts... they are exotic and beautiful and even though they may not function as well as some of their contemporaries that Italian effect comes into play.
Philistine |
To be honest out of all of the nice bikes i have had my favorite ride is when i borrow my fiance's bike.
It's an Azor dutch bike that i found abandoned on the street and fixed it for her. The seat is lovely and big and plush and the sit up position is great and the IGH is a nice way to shift. But i enjoy all different bikes depending on my mood at the time. If i feel like a ride then any bike is a pleasure to ride as long as the brakes and gears are set up well and the bike fits. I have come across some lovely bikes while being in France but all of them have been cheap bikes to purchase and are only considered expensive sought after items outside of France. |
Those are some amazing looking bikes Sixty-Fiver. Really!
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Good question, Colin.
One factor that has to be mentioned is flat-out nostalgia. Many of us of a certain age :innocent: remember the days when (a) you could only hope to see a Masi or a Cinelli in photos or, maybe, fleetingly once on the road, but every town had a Schwinn dealer that had a Paramount we could ogle. Or the days when Campy was the undisputed top-o'-the-heap, at least by reputation. This is the stuff we lusted after back in the day. To some extent, some of us are scratchng an itch that we've had for 40 years or more. This diesn't explain it all, but it is a factor. |
For function, it never has been, nor will it ever be about the bike.
For collection, it is a simple matter of supply and demand. |
Originally Posted by khatfull
(Post 12758770)
Chombi |
Originally Posted by Daveyates
(Post 12759635)
To be honest out of all of the nice bikes i have had my favorite ride is when i borrow my fiance's bike.
It's an Azor dutch bike that i found abandoned on the street and fixed it for her. The seat is lovely and big and plush and the sit up position is great and the IGH is a nice way to shift. But i enjoy all different bikes depending on my mood at the time. If i feel like a ride then any bike is a pleasure to ride as long as the brakes and gears are set up well and the bike fits. I have come across some lovely bikes while being in France but all of them have been cheap bikes to purchase and are only considered expensive sought after items outside of France. Chombi |
There is definitely an Italian effect.
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There was an ad for an '80s bikes on craigslist a while and the guy mentioned inflation rate, provided a link to a site, and factored it into his price.
It was a first for me to see that. I thought it was hilarious, primarily being that he was selling an old rusty beach cruiser. So there you have it.. Inflation rate is another factor. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/I...sp#calcresults |
Originally Posted by iab
(Post 12759847)
For collection, it is a simple matter of supply and demand.
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I'll keep my eyes open for you!
How about a nice Orange Peugeot PX10 ;) |
Originally Posted by Picchio Special
(Post 12759950)
No, collectibilty has never been about supply and demand. Only price and reasale are ever about supply and demand. People collect many things for many reasons - some cheaply, some expensively. When a critical mass of people appreciate the same things, then the demand increases, and the prices follow. But collectibility and value rarely track in a neat 1:1 relationship. I collect what I personally value for a number of criteria I myself have chosen: historical interest, workmanship, originality, personality ("mojo"), etc. But while these sometimes entail cost considerations (which of course tie into supply and demand), they very often do not. I'm confident that a lot of people I know who are fellow "collectors" would agree with me that many "collectible" bikes (based on a shared perception of their quality) can be obtained cheaply, because of low demand. Often, these are high-quality, lesser known bikes built with skill and care.
I agree everything is collectable, I know several people who collect sand from beaches, but I was going off of the OP's definition. He/she was the one who correlated "more collectible" with the higher prices of Italian over Japanese. I also agree that an increase in function or rarety does not increase price. The Wizard/Confente comparison is the perfect example. But to my first point, an increase in function is irrelevant. |
Originally Posted by iab
(Post 12760064)
Sorry to do a Bill Clinton, it depends on what your definition of collectible is. :D
I agree everything is collectable, I know several people who collect sand from beaches, but I was going off of the OP's definition. He/she was the one who correlated "more collectible" with the higher prices of Italian over Japanese. I also agree that an increase in function or rarety does not increase price. The Wizard/Confente comparison is the perfect example. But to my first point, an increase in function is irrelevant. |
Originally Posted by Daveyates
(Post 12759953)
I'll keep my eyes open for you!
How about a nice Orange Peugeot PX10 ;) Chombi |
Geometry, tires, saddle, and drive-train are more significant than a tubing label - though the latter makes an incremental improvement.
- If you have all of these attributes combined with a great aesthetic, then you have an enviable C&V ride. |
I love motorcycles, especially the big air-cooled 4 cylinder bikes form the late 70s-early 80s. The best came from Suzuki and Kawasaki. They were deadly rivals in the day. Some folks (me being one) will swear that the Suzuki GS series was a better bike than the Kawasaki KZ-GPZ. Yet the Kawasakis are in big demand by collectors, while the GS series are the red-headed step-child today.
No idea why. The Kawasaki just have more fans with excess capital. Hard to say which one is prettier. The collector world isn't about logic. |
I wonder if she was a good cyclist? She looks like she has a lot of aerobic capacity!
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I'm glad everyone approves of my choice of images for the lovely Miss (at that time) Loren. Google Images provided a font of pictures to peruse :) but that one was simply the best. On so many levels. :)
My apologies to the female forum members...believe me when I say I celebrate you all. It's just that RobbieTunes HAD to mention one of my favorites and, well... :innocent: |
Originally Posted by chewa
(Post 12758371)
It's difficult to say. I have 4 steel bikes, three of which are variants of 531, (one is 531c, and two are 531db) the other being Columbus SLX.
As to how they ride, I think geometry has a big effect. One of my 531s rides the same as my 531c because the geometry is much the same, my Flying Scot feels a bit livelier, but that may be psychological! :), and the geometry of the Columbus bike is much more race orientated so rides much differently. However, it also feels more "direct" which might be due to it being more torsion resisitant (I think) I love Italian stuff because it looks so stylish, but the paint on my Cinelli is nowhere near as good as my British (or Scottish!) bikes. I love Campag because of the history and the fact it has design flourishes that Shimano doesn't (a Campag rear mech is beautifully shaped), but my favourite ever mech was a Huret Duopar, which I wore out after 20 odd years. On my tourer I have Stronglight cranks, variations of which I have used for years and my wife has TA, which are just stunning. I've used Suntour and liked it, I have Shimano on my hybrid and it works fine, but doesn't look that great (though Dura Ace does). I think(like anything else) you should just collect what you like and ignore value. If you feel the need to keep one or more to satisfy your own desires, keep them. If you own them to prove a point to others... there are worse ways to spend money. If you don't know why you have them, time to sell. If you fall out of love with one, time to sell. I did that once, then bought it back a decade later. So it goes. |
Many, many good points here. I guess each of us fancy different types of rides (and women, eh Khatfull?). At the end of the day, something desirable may not be so to another. I guess that's what makes this hobby (or any other) so dynamic. I peruse Craigslist every day and while I find a bike that excites me, someone else wouldn't turn an eye on it. There are those bikes, however, that EVERYONE can appreciate on these forums and they've been mentioned in this thread. It's to those bikes that I ask the question of being collectible or functional. I assume they're both.
Anyway, loving the discussion and I appreciate everyone's contributions. Another take-away I'm going to sleep on is that it is 100% up to me to determine what a "nice bike" is, because I'm really the only one that can decide that for myself. Time to sell my Motobecane :D -Collin- |
I have had two very similar (in many ways) bikes that are representative of the question.
First was a Reynolds frame Raleigh Super Course outfitted in all Campy NR and Italian bling. Had to sell it some years back. :( I now have a restored to original 86 Raleigh Technium that is very similar in geometry and design intent but a much cheaper bike. After getting some miles on the Technium I can honestly say it is a nicer riding bike, and that is saying a lot because the Super Course was a real dream to ride too. |
Originally Posted by rat fink
(Post 12758510)
Beefier forks with a more rounded profile tend to be more resistant to braking forces, and feel more resistant to cornering forces, but they also seem to transfer hard shocks more, too. The curvature and thickness of the blades makes a very noticeable difference to the way the bike feels. I'm of the mind that the fork easily accounts for as much as 50% of the bike's handling and ride characteristics, rake notwithstanding.
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