Thank you, sir. Since my daughter cares nothing about bicycles, you can have it when I die. But you can't have my shotguns. She does want those.

This is my thing. As a professional engineer, I love the engineering marvel that is the bicycle wheel. The bicycle wheel is perhaps the strongest structure ever devised when you look at it ounce-for-ounce. And your wheels have more impact on a bicycle's ride and performance than any other component on the whole bike... bar none. A great wheelset can transform a bike from a slug to a gazelle. I learned to build wheels just so I could know all the secret black magic that those pro mechanics practice... and now I don't trust anyone else to build my wheels.

My favorite thing in wheelbuilding: older 7400 series DuraAce hubs
You can get them for a song... even on eBay where the buyers are insane. I think it's because folks who generally use DuraAce are the kind of folks who want brand new stuff. And DuraAce hubs are very very easy to rebuild. Invest in a big bag of 3/16" Grade 25 ball bearings and as long as nobody trashed the cones and races, you're all set.

So if I was going to build a set of great 650b wheels and try to save money: DuraAce front hub... rear hub depends on your spacing (but if you're doing a vintage frame, then a 126mm wide DuraAce rear is great... good quality butted spokes (I like the really thin ones like DT Swiss Revolution 2.0/1.5 butted... hard to build with if you're new to wheelbuilding though)... good light rims (I used Velocity Synergy rims and loved the way they built up)... alloy nipples. Build them yourself. Save bucks.

I’ve always liked the 650B bikes just for their retro French style. I’ve considered building one up, or maybe converting my Motobecane Grand Jubile, but haven’t done so yet. I have a set of 26x1½ smooth-tread tires on my ’87 Stumpy, and with the fenders and rack it actually looks kind of similar to the some of old French bikes, although with cheap Innova tires and a stout MTB frame the similarities don’t go all that far.
But that makes me wonder, how different are 650B’s from 26”? How would a light road bike with fat 26” tires perform? Is it the particular size that supposedly makes the 650B’s so special, or is it those Hetre tires?

That's such a great looking bike.

Yes, Jobst Brandt stressed this in his book. It's quite a marvel.

I disagree. To me, the one choice that makes the most difference is the tires.

But lightweight wheels come in close, probably in second place.

I don't blame you!

I haven't worked much with Dura Ace hubs, but I trust they are of the very highest quality. And I agree that high quality hubs are a good investment. I've done well with old Campagnolo Record hubs.

I recently had to remove a sprocket and lockring off a Dura Ace track hub. They were on insanely tight. I went through various abusive techniques to get the lockring off. It withstood all my abuse, only because it was extremely well made. I left hardly a scratch on it.

You can ruin your rims, but your hubs will last.

It's not the size, it's the tires. The tires are tall as well as wide. And they're light and supple in the sidewall.

What is said of the Hetres agrees with the general findings on tires by Velocio back in the 1920s. Is there or has there been an empirical test of the Hetres by:
1) Someone who isn't selling them, and
2) Someone who isn't justifying having paid $136 + shipping to put two on their bike?

+1,000,000

I see you are a student of human behavior....

And who would that be? They're tires, not snake oil.

It seems the experience of the Hetre buyers/riders speaks pretty loudly here. I have yet to hear of anyone who was disappointed in their performance, but maybe that's the same justification/reasoning that buyers of those $100 tubulars present. :)

Neal

I'm one of the non-buyers trying to justify my not spending that kind of money on tires...

In my view, 650B-sized wheels are terrific for two kinds of conditions. One is for riding roads like these without using a mountain bike:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j...1000000251.JPG

The second is for converting road bikes that would have come with fairly narrow 700c tires and a fairly steep front end, such as the Raleigh Competition GS:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bi...ition650B3.jpg

The wider, lower-pressure tires transform the relatively "racey" ride of those framesets and offer a much more comfortable ride.

Neal

Soma has two tires that are essentially 650B Paselas one with a stiffer sidewall. I hope to try them soon to compare them to the CdlVs.

One cheap source is old bikes that had 650B wheels. The Schwinn Mirada during a couple years of its making had 650B wheels. The first cheap wheelset I bought was probably taken off one of these (Alesa Rims). I actually passed a locked up Schwinn Mirada that had weeks growing through it and eventually stuck a tag on it. /checked the rims and they were 650B (584). The property owner called me, said it was abandoned, could i please come and cut it free and take away. I kept the wheels pitched the bike. They will serve as decent back up rims or maybe I'll sell them who nose. Otherwise custom built 650B's will cost you near 300 bucks with decent hubs. With the rims you could try to do a wheel build.

NOt sure if they are the same, but I use the Soma B-Lines 650B and I love them - faster than CDLV and just as durable.

So, how would a Trek 620 do for a 650b conversion? I have one that needs paint, fits 37x700 Pasella Tourguards w/out issue but tucks a little too high in my groin for my liking. The frame has canti mounts so they'd need to be lowered but that's not an issue. Would doing something like this ruin the frame? or should I try to trade it for a 58cm touring frame instead of my current 60cm? I really like the way the frame looks but with the 37s and having it "loaded" it would be difficult for me to navigate my delicates over the toptube

I have seen this done, and it turned out wonderfully! The Trek I saw had the cantilevers
moved to fit, and the fork was tweaked a little bit for more rake.

Cheers,
Chris

Neal, is that Bob and his converted SR? Upon close examination, it's downright eery how similarly our conversions turned out! We had a terrific trail ride led by Rich last weekend. I had no idea so many long trails exist near here! I'm heading back for more, soon!

Yup, that's Bob on the "Aloha." He was telling me yesterday how your conversions are even the same color! And I look forward to exploring some of those great 650B trails in the area.

Neal

Here's a pic of Bob's 650B converted SR:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-e...1000000247.JPG

Neal

I’m coming to the conclusion that the main reason for converting to 650B is so you can use Hetre tires.

I have some light fast road bikes that are wonderful on smooth pavement, and a couple heavy-duty bikes with big fat tires that are great for the rough stuff, so I can do either kind of riding with no problem. But it’s one or the other-- neither type of bike can fill both roles well. Maybe my Trek 520, but it’s still kind of slow on the pavement, and I’d want to change the tires for different conditions.

What seems new to me is that the Hetres allow you to fly on the pavement and float over the gravel equally well with the same tires. This would allow you to combine gravel and paved roads on the same trip. In my case that would open up a lot of new and really interesting routes around here.

I hope my new build will have clearance for the Hetre. Have room for 28mm w fender, 32 without on my current 700 set up.

For lots of people, yes. The bike in the photo that Neal posted is running 38mm Pari-Motos (if I remember correctly). But they are touted as being exceptionally supple tires as well. I would say that for conversion, the candidate frame should fit at least 38mm tires with room to spare. On my converted frame, I can fit 42mm Hetres with about 3mm of clearance between the chainstays.

Bob was running Hetres on that ride though he has Pari-Motos on the bike now for a bit more clearance.

Neal

Yep. You guys caught me.

I bought these tires, and when I found out that they're trash, one single thought popped into my head:

"Hey. I can make everything feel better if I go on the interwebz and tell everyone that I'm tickled to death at how fun these tires are to ride."

Whatever. If you don't want to buy any, then don't buy any.

Besides... you're wrong about the money part. I didn't spend $136.00 + shipping. I spent over $2000 building a whole new bike! :thumb:

To answer the original question, 80's Miyata frames make decent conversion candidates. I converted a 1984 310 successfully. Originally I just used long reach Tektro calipers, but once I was convinced the bike was worth riding with 650b, I had canti bosses brazed on and increased the fork rake slightly to lower the trail and improve handling with a front load. This frame just fits Hetres without fenders, or comfortably fits 38mm tyres like the Grand Bois Lierre with Honjos. It would probably fit Hetres with a fender if the chainstays were manipulated (ie thumped to increase clearance).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_wasa...7625227549739/

i converted a raleigh comp that came with 27s... worked perfectly. i have a nice 38 in there with room to spare. if anything it feels faster to me (although i was running marathons before so undoubtedly it was the tires) and i have a nice low bb that is hard to find in production bikes.

What brakes are you using on your Comp? Thanks.

-D

My Bilenky tandem isn't a conversion, but rides on Hetre tires. I've gotten really spoiled riding on these tires. I'm looking for something else to convert to 650B, but with 650A (EA3) being as affordable as it is, it is hard to justify. The Panaracer CdlV isn't a Hetre, but might fit the bill nicely. I have a Dawes Galaxy frameset sitting in the basement and a pair of freshly built CR-18 650A rims laced to a SA 3-speed hub. This might just be the ticket.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5196/7...60b6e920_b.jpg
Bilenky 650B Constructeur Tandem - First Ride - 20 by Sallad Rialb, on Flickr

tektro 559s

I just converted my '81 Bianchi to 650B, even though I was pretty sure that it wouldn't be able to fit the Hetres. I'm using the 38mm Panaracer Col de la Vie tires and I think they're great. Especially considering they cost about $25 instead of $65 each for the Hetres. Even though I saved some money on the tires, the conversion was expensive...but totally worth it. The ride is pretty awesome.

Since this thread has turned into a tire debate, I'll put in this bit for the Soma B-line. While I own three sets of Hetres for three bikes and like them a lot, I have heard nothing but positive feedback for the Soma B-lines, which are rebranded Panaracers Paselas in 650 x 38B size. In particular, the "skinwall" version (not the hypertex version also offered) has been compared very favorably with the Hetre for its smooth ride and low rolling resistance, yet it costs only about $45, or about 2/3 that of a Hetre.