Frames suitable for a 650b conversion?
 

A very simple question: could we rattle off some frames that would make good 650b conversion candidates? I'm looking for steel, obviously, but nothing heavy duty. I don't plan to go touring on this thing, so the lighter/more sporty the tubing the better. I am also fine with never sticking something like a 42 in there. 38 would be plenty for me. Have at it!

(or link me to the website that I missed when using google to try to figure this out on my own)

The iBob list took up the question of "What bikes have you converted to 650B?" a while back. Here's the link to that conversation:

https://groups.google.com/group/inte...7996270d79ece4

If that doesn't work, go to groups.google.com, find the "internet-bob" group, and do a search for that question.

Neal

I designed my second frame to work with either 650b or 700c. Turns out it has really standard dimensions, 68mm BB drop, 73 parallel, 415mm chainstays, so, honestly, pretty much anything in the 25+ year old racing bike category should work, or anything in the sport tourer category...but you might need to buy a new set of brake calipers. FWIW, my bike rides like a dream...pics here http://www.flickr.com/photos/2214371...7626547737510/

Pete

Is there any advantage to a 650B conversion if a 700X38-42 will fit? It's an expensive conversion.

I'd say the advantage is slight if you can fit that wide a 700c tires, but that's usually a specific sort of frame (Surly LHT?). 650B conversions can be done on a fairly wide range of frames in terms of geometry. Also, the most popular 42mm 650B tire, the Panaracer Hetre, gets raved about much more than any 38-42mm 700c tire, at least on the interwebs.

Neal

Neal, would you say the #1 reason for most 650B conversions is the ability to run that tire?

I get the impression the Grand Bois Hetre will make me lose 10 pounds in a week, improve my sex life, make me a better and faster rider and generally just make me a cooler dude. I'm also looking for a frame for conversion.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf8qsy9E1D1qeyo4t.jpg

I'm very tempted to do a 650b conversion myself. How will it affect the handling?

So if just about any bike will work, how about giving me some good leads on a frame that won't take 10 years to pop up on craigslist but is still kinda nice? I'm a sucker for higher quality tubing even though it might not make a difference.

I've got to agree.

You get a tire/wheel combo with the outside diameter of a 700x23 tire (at 38mm). More rubber, less metal, less weight to rotate on the very outside of the wheel. And the tire is still fat. That's the theory. But I'm just up to "650b bike" stage of gratuitous bicycle collecting. I think it comes right after "cross bike."

I just picked up an 81 Schwinn Super Sport. It looks like it would make an awesome 650b conversion. You would need an early eighties one because they changed the geometry more towards racing. But it is fairly relaxed geometry, Champion #2 tubing, front and rear racks, triple chainring, Tange headset, Cyclone derailleurs, Superbe shifters.

Mine would probably need new brakes, but I just saw one from 83 (or 84) that had center-pull brakes that looked like they had plenty of reach.

I've had two '81 Super Sports in the stand. The first thing that crossed my mind was that they'd be ripe for 650B. I believe the rear spacing is 120mm, though (maybe not, but it came with a 5sp freewheel). I popped a front 650B wheel with a Col de la Vie installed (38mm). Plenty of clearance in the fork and it looked like an extra long reach Tektro would work well. The issue will be at the chainstays with a fender and a 42mm tire. I'm not sure whether she'll take it or not.

Here's one I built up for a friend with 700C x 32mm (actually measure about 30mm) Pasela TGs.

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...12872584360001

That does seem true for lots of converters. And I've seen lots of small builders in the US building bikes around that tire. If it ever goes out of production, lots of people will be very unhappy!

That said, I love my 700 x 32mm Grand Bois Cypres tires or maybe I just love the two bikes on which I have them mounted. I ride the Hetres on my Ebisu, which is a great bike, but not the one I'll always choose for certain kinds of riding (e.g., fast road rides).

Neal

I converted a1985 Univega Nuovo Sport. I have 35mm Col de la Vie tires and they fit, but not with a lot of cearance at the rear chain stays. Many Univegas and Miyatas from that era a good candidates as they have sufficient clearances for wide tires and fenders. Many of them also have a a high bottom bracket, so pedal to ground clearance isn't a problem.

I use old Weinmann 750 centerpulls because I had a pair, but I guess long reach Tektros sidepulls would also work.

As to the question Grand Bois raised as to wether there is any advantage of a 650B over a wide 700c tire if the bike canfit wide 700c tires, I would say that for smaller frames, there is, because the smaller wheels eliminate or reduce toe-fender overlap. Another plus for smaller frames is that they look better proportioned. At least to my eye.

Don't you think, if you are out looking for a bike to convert, picking one "originally 700c" makes more sense? Mainly for brake reach?
Would there be more canti-brake bikes in 700c?

Personally, everytime I see someone posting nebulously about a 650B conversion for "wide tires" I automatically assume they actually mean:

"I want those awesome Panaracer Hetre Tires and I am willing to build a set of wheels just so I can use them"....but don't actually come out and say it because internet forum rules dictate that you never make a definitive statement unless you want to have someone nitpick it apart. :)

I am currently building a set of 650B wheels for the Hetres I bought 6 months ago. The only reason I am building these wheels is to ride Hetres. I'm hoping it will all fit in the Frame I've picked.

Are you keeping the frame's identity a secret for now?

I think if the frame was built for 700c and has ample clearance, yes. Certainly not a 700c bike that fits a 23mm tire max. A bike with cantilevers positioned for 700C won't allow the use of those brakes with a 650B wheel.

It's International Danger Orange! The end result will look like a push up on wheels!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Lt6Yc4rAb6...00/push-up.jpg

Whats the big deal with these tires? is it just the looks?

No, they're that good, apparently. Tires have had some breakthroughs over the years. I am in love with the Panaracer Pasela, and people have said that the Hetres are like Paselas but better.

The breakthrough lately is to have a wide tire with a lightweight, supple sidewall. This means you can have a supple, light tire that is also wide. This breaks the tradeoff we used to make, choosing between supple and wide.

:-D

I love radical honesty!

I LOLed at that one too. :)

Actually I'm going for Creamsicle ;) :lol:

Tom, its a '72 Schwinn World Voyageur. I've measured but I have my moments of doubt that the Hetres will fit. Ordering spokes tonight so I'll know for reals soon.

I think its at least partially the looks. Everyone and their mother is hot for a white or red tread tire it seems. I know I am. Also, like the other Grand Bois tires (which are all made by panaracer) the tire has a nice supple casing which makes it roll easier. Additionally the fatty tires can be run at much lower pressures than their narrower counterparts which is nice and comfy and gives confident feeling traction on rough roads and trails. I haven't ridden mine yet but if the other Grand Bois tires I've got are any indication (and I think they are) these should be quite nice.

Also Neal Lerner says they are good, which is a thumbs up in my book.

This bike http://cgi.ebay.com/22-Miyata-Terra-...item3a66c394e1

with Hetres could be outfitted to be a Sweeet Porteur IMHO. Too bad its a Terra Runner and not a Ridge Runner.

Ah, yes. Wrong ice cream. Actually, it's a 1973 model, right? All of them were, yes?

I resemble that remark.

If he offered me Kool-Aid, it'd be bottoms up. That guy's the best!

I drank the Grand Bois (Panaracer) Hetre koolaid recently. The main advantages to this tire are: wide cross-section (42mm), smooth ribbed tread, thin, supple casing for low rolling resistance and a supple ride, Kevlar puncture protection, and Kevlar folding bead. So it's a relatively lightweight tire, durable, smooth rolling with low rolling resistance. What's not to like?

I couldn't be happier with my recent conversion, which I built with these tires in mind. These tires are such a treat, whether on the road or on a fire trail. I went on my first real trail ride on this bike, and I was grinning ear to ear the whole time.

That said, if you simply want a bike that can run wide tires, you can always buy a new Surly Cross Check for about $400. It has room for 50mm 700C tires, or 40-something mm 700C tires with fenders. (A friend fitted 50mm Fat Franks *with* fenders, but it took some finagling). I spent that much just converting and powdercoating my frame, but then again, I really wanted Hetres, so it made sense to go that route and not something like a new Cross Check.

Another thing to consider in a conversion, aside from brake reach, is BB height. Conversion will generally cause the BB to drop about 8-15mm, and if the bike being converted already has a relatively low BB, this may cause problems with pedal strike, especially if you plan on using the bike on fire trails or rocky, technical mtb trails. And this is especially true if you prefer extra long cranks.

I think so yes. And I think all of em were International Danger Orange :) I love that name for the color :lol:

Maybe the best color name EVAR!

No, they also made Kool Lemon (although it was probably a little different shade than true Kool Lemon as it was a Japanese built bike. On second thought I think I remember reading they were painted stateside.)

If they'd made them in more than two sizes I'd own one. Love these bikes! Check out the skip-tooth large cogs and the paint detail on the fork crown.

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...12903714750001


http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...12903714670001


http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...12903714580001

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...30555555800010

Ah, and here's what I believe is the next hot ticket in C&V:

http://besttoysguide.com/wp-content/...egirlsbike.jpg

Neal

That World Voyageur looks great. It's made in Japan and painted in the Schwinn factory? I can't think of a better pedigree than that! Looks like it was chromed in Chicago, too. Yummy!

perhaps this has been linked:
http://650b.webs.com/conversions.htm
good measurements to keep in mind when checking out potential frames.

One key limiting factor is brake reach. If your bike had 27" tires originally (usually, what... pre 1985?) The reach to the rims on 650B gets to be waaaaaaaay long at times. A bike with 700C wheels originally is always easier. Tektro R556 are nice long reach brakes. Older bikes with classic fork crowns often offer more clearance. My 650B bikes run 38MM tires (Col de La Vie and Soma B-Lines) they are plenty cushy and roll really fast. The Hetres are cool but just too 'rich' for me at that price point.

I am taking delivery of a couple frames for my next project and am juiced to get started.